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Group: streetfighter Message: 14424 From: Eric Henrique de Souza Date: 5/5/2003
Subject: Re: Ansatsuken and Shotokan
Group: streetfighter Message: 14425 From: AzQ Date: 5/5/2003
Subject: Re: Ansatsuken and Shotokan
Group: streetfighter Message: 14426 From: Eric Henrique de Souza Date: 5/7/2003
Subject: Re: Ansatsuken and Shotokan
Group: streetfighter Message: 14427 From: Eric Henrique de Souza Date: 5/7/2003
Subject: Re: Ansatsuken and Shotokan
Group: streetfighter Message: 14428 From: slappy_the_ringthief Date: 5/8/2003
Subject: beware this awesome fighting style......
Group: streetfighter Message: 14429 From: slappy_the_ringthief Date: 5/8/2003
Subject: Re: Ansatsuken and Shotokan
Group: streetfighter Message: 14430 From: Cedrik Duval Date: 5/11/2003
Subject: Hello!
Group: streetfighter Message: 14431 From: Fox Reinard Date: 5/13/2003
Subject: My introduction.
Group: streetfighter Message: 14432 From: slappy_the_ringthief Date: 5/13/2003
Subject: Re: Hello!
Group: streetfighter Message: 14433 From: slappy_the_ringthief Date: 5/13/2003
Subject: Re: My introduction.
Group: streetfighter Message: 14434 From: Fox Reinard Date: 5/13/2003
Subject: Re: My introduction.
Group: streetfighter Message: 14435 From: streetfighter@yahoogroups.com Date: 5/13/2003
Subject: New file uploaded to streetfighter
Group: streetfighter Message: 14436 From: JOE Date: 5/13/2003
Subject: ground grappling rules. finally!!!
Group: streetfighter Message: 14437 From: Fox Reinard Date: 5/14/2003
Subject: The Munchkin Years
Group: streetfighter Message: 14438 From: Claude Smith Date: 5/14/2003
Subject: Re: The Munchkin Years
Group: streetfighter Message: 14439 From: slappy_the_ringthief Date: 5/14/2003
Subject: bye bye
Group: streetfighter Message: 14440 From: Fox Reinard Date: 5/14/2003
Subject: Re: The Munchkin Years
Group: streetfighter Message: 14441 From: Claude Smith Date: 5/14/2003
Subject: Re: bye bye
Group: streetfighter Message: 14442 From: Claude Smith Date: 5/14/2003
Subject: Re: The Munchkin Years
Group: streetfighter Message: 14443 From: Fox Reinard Date: 5/14/2003
Subject: Re: The Munchkin Years
Group: streetfighter Message: 14444 From: Fox Reinard Date: 5/14/2003
Subject: Update
Group: streetfighter Message: 14445 From: Fox Reinard Date: 5/14/2003
Subject: Optional Rules proposal
Group: streetfighter Message: 14446 From: Fox Reinard Date: 5/14/2003
Subject: The Flood Continues
Group: streetfighter Message: 14447 From: Fox Reinard Date: 5/14/2003
Subject: The Flood Continues
Group: streetfighter Message: 14448 From: Jens-Arthur Leirbakk Date: 5/15/2003
Subject: Re: The Flood Continues
Group: streetfighter Message: 14449 From: Herve Gander Date: 5/15/2003
Subject: Re: The Munchkin Years
Group: streetfighter Message: 14450 From: Fox Reinard Date: 5/15/2003
Subject: Re: The Munchkin Years
Group: streetfighter Message: 14451 From: Claude Smith Date: 5/15/2003
Subject: Re: The Munchkin Years
Group: streetfighter Message: 14452 From: Claude Smith Date: 5/15/2003
Subject: Re: The Munchkin Years
Group: streetfighter Message: 14453 From: Deslongchamps, Michael Joseph (UMR-Stude Date: 5/15/2003
Subject: Re: The Munchkin Years
Group: streetfighter Message: 14454 From: Gwenhwyvar Valia Lillith Baker Date: 5/17/2003
Subject: Re: bye bye
Group: streetfighter Message: 14455 From: Gwenhwyvar Valia Lillith Baker Date: 5/17/2003
Subject: Re: The Munchkin Years
Group: streetfighter Message: 14456 From: Fox Reinard Date: 5/19/2003
Subject: Re: The Munchkin Years
Group: streetfighter Message: 14457 From: Gwenhwyvar Valia Lillith Baker Date: 5/19/2003
Subject: Re: The Munchkin Years
Group: streetfighter Message: 14458 From: theeslimshady Date: 5/19/2003
Subject: Hi
Group: streetfighter Message: 14459 From: Shinzite Date: 5/20/2003
Subject: Yo everyone i am Back
Group: streetfighter Message: 14460 From: Fox Reinard Date: 5/21/2003
Subject: It's finally done...
Group: streetfighter Message: 14461 From: slappy_the_ringthief Date: 5/21/2003
Subject: Re: The Flood Continues
Group: streetfighter Message: 14462 From: slappy_the_ringthief Date: 5/21/2003
Subject: Re: bye bye
Group: streetfighter Message: 14463 From: Gwenhwyvar Valia Lillith Baker Date: 5/21/2003
Subject: Re: It's finally done...
Group: streetfighter Message: 14464 From: Gwenhwyvar Valia Lillith Baker Date: 5/21/2003
Subject: Re: bye bye
Group: streetfighter Message: 14465 From: snoreboy01 Date: 5/21/2003
Subject: New Blood
Group: streetfighter Message: 14466 From: Fox Reinard Date: 5/21/2003
Subject: Re: It's finally done...
Group: streetfighter Message: 14467 From: cliff rice Date: 5/21/2003
Subject: Re: It's finally done...
Group: streetfighter Message: 14468 From: MikeM Date: 5/21/2003
Subject: Re: New Blood
Group: streetfighter Message: 14469 From: Fred Chagnon Date: 5/22/2003
Subject: Re: New Blood
Group: streetfighter Message: 14470 From: ~S Date: 5/22/2003
Subject: Re: New Blood
Group: streetfighter Message: 14471 From: slappy_the_ringthief Date: 5/22/2003
Subject: Re: New Blood
Group: streetfighter Message: 14472 From: Eric Date: 5/22/2003
Subject: Gouken' style
Group: streetfighter Message: 14473 From: Gwenhwyvar Valia Lillith Baker Date: 5/22/2003
Subject: Re: New Blood


Group: streetfighter Message: 14424 From: Eric Henrique de Souza Date: 5/5/2003
Subject: Re: Ansatsuken and Shotokan
Ansatsuken are mentioned in Street Fighter Alpha OVA, and very people
thinks it that are a fighting style... I've tried to explain what it
is...

--- In streetfighter@yahoogroups.com, "Fred Chagnon" <seagull@a...>
wrote:
> These all sound very much like the Dim Mak technique. How are they
> different?
>
> | : 52. Ansatsuken is a Generic Term that translates to
> | "Murderous Fist" but it actually means any martial art that
> | is Very Hard. Hard means it goes for the offense, for the
> | kill. Unlike Aikido or Judo. This ansatsuken Goutetsu
> | developed was a Karate variation. Gen's variation is based on
> | Chinese martial arts i.e. the Souryuu and Kiryuu. Both are
> | Martial arts developed to kill, therefore they are both
Ansatsuken.
> |
> | Maybe one way to see this is from just one move from each
> | variation: Gouki has the Shun Goku Satsu - A move meant to
> | kill, hitting the vital points to destroy your body.
> | Similarly, Gen has the Shi Ten Shou under the Souryuu move.
> | This move Hits various vital points on your body to
> | ultimately make your body slowly die. Both are moves that
> | were designed to kill, not injure. There are probably other
> | ansatsuken out there, just...not in SF.
> |
> http://street-fighter.hypermart.net/msgboard/messages/545.html
> More information about Shotokan in SF:
>
> Shotokan Sanctum / http://vegetaou814.tripod.com/sfshotokan.html
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: streetfighter Message: 14425 From: AzQ Date: 5/5/2003
Subject: Re: Ansatsuken and Shotokan
Hello Eric!

I was just reading the same resource you gave
( http://street-fighter.hypermart.net/msgboard/messages/545.html )
and found out this piece of information:

: 27. The Japanese (original) name of the fighting style
: Ryu/Ken use is Ansatsuken.

For me, this states clearly that Ryu / Ken / Gouki / etc... original fighting
style is Ansatsuken. I agree that maybe Goutetsu learned first Karate, then
found the info about Ansatsuken and mastered it, but that's the same story
with Koichi Tohei, Aikidoka, wich learned Judo with Jigoro Kano until 3rd
Dan, then grew tired of it, got a recomendation letter from his master
( Jigoro Kano ) and went out to study Aikido with Mohirei Ueshiba. So, you
cannot tell that Tohei is a judoka, he were a judoka, now he is an aikidoka.
same goes to Ryu.


In Monday 05 May 2003 08:54, Eric Henrique de Souza wrote:
> Ansatsuken are mentioned in Street Fighter Alpha OVA, and very people
> thinks it that are a fighting style... I've tried to explain what it
> is...
>
> --- In streetfighter@yahoogroups.com, "Fred Chagnon" <seagull@a...>
>
> wrote:
> > These all sound very much like the Dim Mak technique. How are they
> > different?
> >
> > | : 52. Ansatsuken is a Generic Term that translates to
> > |
> > | "Murderous Fist" but it actually means any martial art that
> > | is Very Hard. Hard means it goes for the offense, for the
> > | kill. Unlike Aikido or Judo. This ansatsuken Goutetsu
> > | developed was a Karate variation. Gen's variation is based on
> > | Chinese martial arts i.e. the Souryuu and Kiryuu. Both are
> > | Martial arts developed to kill, therefore they are both
>
> Ansatsuken.
>
> > | Maybe one way to see this is from just one move from each
> > | variation: Gouki has the Shun Goku Satsu - A move meant to
> > | kill, hitting the vital points to destroy your body.
> > | Similarly, Gen has the Shi Ten Shou under the Souryuu move.
> > | This move Hits various vital points on your body to
> > | ultimately make your body slowly die. Both are moves that
> > | were designed to kill, not injure. There are probably other
> > | ansatsuken out there, just...not in SF.
> >
> > http://street-fighter.hypermart.net/msgboard/messages/545.html
> >
> > More information about Shotokan in SF:
> >
> > Shotokan Sanctum / http://vegetaou814.tripod.com/sfshotokan.html
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Group: streetfighter Message: 14426 From: Eric Henrique de Souza Date: 5/7/2003
Subject: Re: Ansatsuken and Shotokan
I know this part... Ansatsuken is the version of Shotokan Karate
created to kill, and the version of Kung Fu used by Gen... The other
part explain this...

--- In streetfighter@yahoogroups.com, AzQ <azq2die4@l...> wrote:
> Hello Eric!
>
> I was just reading the same resource you gave
> ( http://street-fighter.hypermart.net/msgboard/messages/545.html )
> and found out this piece of information:
>
> : 27. The Japanese (original) name of the fighting style
> : Ryu/Ken use is Ansatsuken.
>
> For me, this states clearly that Ryu / Ken / Gouki / etc...
original fighting
> style is Ansatsuken. I agree that maybe Goutetsu learned first
Karate, then
> found the info about Ansatsuken and mastered it, but that's the
same story
> with Koichi Tohei, Aikidoka, wich learned Judo with Jigoro Kano
until 3rd
> Dan, then grew tired of it, got a recomendation letter from his
master
> ( Jigoro Kano ) and went out to study Aikido with Mohirei Ueshiba.
So, you
> cannot tell that Tohei is a judoka, he were a judoka, now he is an
aikidoka.
> same goes to Ryu.
>
>
> In Monday 05 May 2003 08:54, Eric Henrique de Souza wrote:
> > Ansatsuken are mentioned in Street Fighter Alpha OVA, and very
people
> > thinks it that are a fighting style... I've tried to explain what
it
> > is...
> >
> > --- In streetfighter@yahoogroups.com, "Fred Chagnon"
<seagull@a...>
> >
> > wrote:
> > > These all sound very much like the Dim Mak technique. How are
they
> > > different?
> > >
> > > | : 52. Ansatsuken is a Generic Term that translates to
> > > |
> > > | "Murderous Fist" but it actually means any martial art that
> > > | is Very Hard. Hard means it goes for the offense, for the
> > > | kill. Unlike Aikido or Judo. This ansatsuken Goutetsu
> > > | developed was a Karate variation. Gen's variation is based on
> > > | Chinese martial arts i.e. the Souryuu and Kiryuu. Both are
> > > | Martial arts developed to kill, therefore they are both
> >
> > Ansatsuken.
> >
> > > | Maybe one way to see this is from just one move from each
> > > | variation: Gouki has the Shun Goku Satsu - A move meant to
> > > | kill, hitting the vital points to destroy your body.
> > > | Similarly, Gen has the Shi Ten Shou under the Souryuu move.
> > > | This move Hits various vital points on your body to
> > > | ultimately make your body slowly die. Both are moves that
> > > | were designed to kill, not injure. There are probably other
> > > | ansatsuken out there, just...not in SF.
> > >
> > > http://street-fighter.hypermart.net/msgboard/messages/545.html
> > >
> > > More information about Shotokan in SF:
> > >
> > > Shotokan Sanctum / http://vegetaou814.tripod.com/sfshotokan.html
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > >
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
Group: streetfighter Message: 14427 From: Eric Henrique de Souza Date: 5/7/2003
Subject: Re: Ansatsuken and Shotokan
> For me, this states clearly that Ryu / Ken / Gouki / etc...
original fighting style is Ansatsuken. I agree that maybe Goutetsu
learned first Karate, then found the info about Ansatsuken and
mastered it, but that's the same story with Koichi Tohei, Aikidoka,
wich learned Judo with Jigoro Kano until 3rd Dan, then grew tired of
it, got a recomendation letter from his master ( Jigoro Kano ) and
went out to study Aikido with Mohirei Ueshiba. So, you cannot tell
that Tohei is a judoka, he were a judoka, now he is an aikidoka.
same goes to Ryu.

Eric: Not make sense think in this way... Because Goutetsu are the
man who TRY TO IGNORE ansatsuken moves of Shotokan, include the Shun
Goku Satsu... Akuma (or Gouki) was the man that revive this move,
killing your master and your brother...
Group: streetfighter Message: 14428 From: slappy_the_ringthief Date: 5/8/2003
Subject: beware this awesome fighting style......
he will own you with a quarter staff.

http://www.waxy.org/archive/2003/04/29/star_war.shtml
Group: streetfighter Message: 14429 From: slappy_the_ringthief Date: 5/8/2003
Subject: Re: Ansatsuken and Shotokan
yeah and he also says "One of my friends is friends with a member of
Capcom Japan" so it MUST be right.

i mean, its a friend of a friend, thats like being carved in stone :P
(j/k)
honestly i think some parts of what both of you are saying is cannon.

the whole "fighting style" thing is way more open ended than the
clear-cut version in the RPG here.

like trying to decide what style bruce lee was based on what he
trained in or learned.

I have heard it said a lot that gouki and gen are both ansatsuken
despite the apparant differences in style.


--- In streetfighter@yahoogroups.com, AzQ <azq2die4@l...> wrote:
> Hello Eric!
>
> I was just reading the same resource you gave
> ( http://street-fighter.hypermart.net/msgboard/messages/545.html )
> and found out this piece of information:
>
> : 27. The Japanese (original) name of the fighting style
> : Ryu/Ken use is Ansatsuken.
>
> For me, this states clearly that Ryu / Ken / Gouki / etc...
original fighting
> style is Ansatsuken.
Group: streetfighter Message: 14430 From: Cedrik Duval Date: 5/11/2003
Subject: Hello!
I am member of this group for a long time, however, I seldom find the
time to read here. In my spare time I create material for several rpg
systems. I have just completed a latest version of my list of new
maneuvers and I would really appreciate some feedback from you.
You can find the maneuver list here:
http://www.cedrik.net/sf/maneuvers.pdf

Note that you might find some of these techniques familiar. This is
because I wrote the earliest maneuvers in this list in the mid 90's.
You might already have stumbled over them.

Thanx for any c&c!

CU, CD!
Group: streetfighter Message: 14431 From: Fox Reinard Date: 5/13/2003
Subject: My introduction.
Greetings, fellow Streetfightermaniacs.

My name is Fox Reinard, and I have been playing Street Fighter since about the time of its release. It was the first RPG I had taken part in, and to this day, I cannot name an RPG I know better. I stuck with it through Secrets of Shadowloo, which was a good sourcebook, and I stuck with it through the Player's Guide (A not-so-good sourcebook...), and I stuck with it beyond into The Perfect Warrior, and Contenders.

What I have here is a complete overhaul of the Street fighter Storytelling Game, inspired greatly by Exalted in many respects, which is presently my favorite game by White Wolf still in print. This is after about five years worth of looking things over, finding glitches, problems, inconsistencies, blatantly stupid mistakes due to author not reading the basic material, and Things I Hate.

I began originally by simply making a personal errata to what was already in print. Something I grew very tired of very quickly, because there were a lot of things to correct. From Dim Mak's Focus Requirement being switched with Chi Kung Healing's, to the little error of how much Wu Shu would pay for Backflip, to the highly unbalanced and widely disliked Cartwheel Kick, I went through with a fine-tooth comb, making judgements as to what would need alteration should I ever take up the mantle and run Street Fighter again.

That project has been discarded, though I still have the notes on paper. Now I am working on the revision. Where the errata would be Version 1.5, the revision is what I call V.2.0. To you, the interested reader, I present my work-in-progress.

The changes themselves vary, from the minor (Freebie Costs for Backgrounds) to the gigantic (Style overhaul). The game is no longer so fast-paced due to a few steps added in combat, along with options open to someone other than simply 'blocking' if they wish to defend themselves. Maneuvers now have an Accuracy modifier, and Honor no longer regains a character Chi or Willpower.

Further, these are all suggestions. As a work-in-progress, input from people who have something good to add are welcome. Comments of all shapes and sizes. Flames.. don't. There is no point to flames, as I will immediately disregard and move on to reading something more constructive.

For now, enjoy what I have so far done.
http://www.comnet.ca/~freinard/sf/
will give a directory listing of all of the files finished thusfar. It will be updated as I finish each file.
Group: streetfighter Message: 14432 From: slappy_the_ringthief Date: 5/13/2003
Subject: Re: Hello!
only had a chance to really glance through it so far, but it looks
nice, thanks 4 it.

--- In streetfighter@yahoogroups.com, "Cedrik Duval" <duval@u...>
wrote:
> I am member of this group for a long time, however, I seldom find
the
> time to read here. In my spare time I create material for several
rpg
> systems. I have just completed a latest version of my list of new
> maneuvers and I would really appreciate some feedback from you.
> You can find the maneuver list here:
> http://www.cedrik.net/sf/maneuvers.pdf
>
> Note that you might find some of these techniques familiar. This is
> because I wrote the earliest maneuvers in this list in the mid 90's.
> You might already have stumbled over them.
>
> Thanx for any c&c!
>
> CU, CD!
Group: streetfighter Message: 14433 From: slappy_the_ringthief Date: 5/13/2003
Subject: Re: My introduction.
im at work and havent had a chance to look this over yet, but i tell
you i already stand behind it 100% based on your description of what
your doing alone.

i offer to do layout for you if thats helpfull. I am a crazy
perfectionist and have almost mastered counterfiting white wolfs
layout (or at least pretty close) :P

like here
http://www.tlcnet.com/~slappy/sf/connew.html

once I have a chance to really wade into it I will give you more
specific feedback you asked for.

--- In streetfighter@yahoogroups.com, "Fox Reinard" <kyubiko@y...>
wrote:
> Greetings, fellow Streetfightermaniacs.
>
> My name is Fox Reinard, and I have been playing Street Fighter
since about the time of its release. It was the first RPG I had taken
part in, and to this day, I cannot name an RPG I know better. I stuck
with it through Secrets of Shadowloo, which was a good sourcebook,
and I stuck with it through the Player's Guide (A not-so-good
sourcebook...), and I stuck with it beyond into The Perfect Warrior,
and Contenders.
>
> What I have here is a complete overhaul of the Street fighter
Storytelling Game, inspired greatly by Exalted in many respects,
which is presently my favorite game by White Wolf still in print.
This is after about five years worth of looking things over, finding
glitches, problems, inconsistencies, blatantly stupid mistakes due to
author not reading the basic material, and Things I Hate.
>
> I began originally by simply making a personal errata to what was
already in print. Something I grew very tired of very quickly,
because there were a lot of things to correct. From Dim Mak's Focus
Requirement being switched with Chi Kung Healing's, to the little
error of how much Wu Shu would pay for Backflip, to the highly
unbalanced and widely disliked Cartwheel Kick, I went through with a
fine-tooth comb, making judgements as to what would need alteration
should I ever take up the mantle and run Street Fighter again.
>
> That project has been discarded, though I still have the notes on
paper. Now I am working on the revision. Where the errata would be
Version 1.5, the revision is what I call V.2.0. To you, the
interested reader, I present my work-in-progress.
>
> The changes themselves vary, from the minor (Freebie Costs for
Backgrounds) to the gigantic (Style overhaul). The game is no longer
so fast-paced due to a few steps added in combat, along with options
open to someone other than simply 'blocking' if they wish to defend
themselves. Maneuvers now have an Accuracy modifier, and Honor no
longer regains a character Chi or Willpower.
>
> Further, these are all suggestions. As a work-in-progress, input
from people who have something good to add are welcome. Comments of
all shapes and sizes. Flames.. don't. There is no point to flames, as
I will immediately disregard and move on to reading something more
constructive.
>
> For now, enjoy what I have so far done.
> http://www.comnet.ca/~freinard/sf/
> will give a directory listing of all of the files finished thusfar.
It will be updated as I finish each file.
Group: streetfighter Message: 14434 From: Fox Reinard Date: 5/13/2003
Subject: Re: My introduction.
--- In streetfighter@yahoogroups.com, "slappy_the_ringthief" <ringthief@c...> wrote:

Very colourful. Though not directly helpful to my current project, it is good to see there is someone out there who can have fun with the various methods to create colour in the pdf format while still remaining true to the original look and feel.

> im at work and havent had a chance to look this over yet, but i tell
> you i already stand behind it 100% based on your description of what
> your doing alone.

Fox Reinard
Group: streetfighter Message: 14435 From: streetfighter@yahoogroups.com Date: 5/13/2003
Subject: New file uploaded to streetfighter
Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the streetfighter
group.

File : /ground.rtf
Uploaded by : jiujitsu_joe <jiujitsu_joe@...>
Description : ground grappling rules

You can access this file at the URL

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/streetfighter/files/ground.rtf

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit

http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

jiujitsu_joe <jiujitsu_joe@...>
Group: streetfighter Message: 14436 From: JOE Date: 5/13/2003
Subject: ground grappling rules. finally!!!
I uploaded a file on ground grappling rules. sorry for the delay.
give me some feed back please.all my ground grappling special
maneuvers will be up soon.
Group: streetfighter Message: 14437 From: Fox Reinard Date: 5/14/2003
Subject: The Munchkin Years
Long ago, when I was just beginning to understand gaming systems and their purpose, the ins and the outs of various effects things that I could, as a player, purchase for my characters, I did a lot of experimentation.

Much of this (due to my mathematically-minded self) resulted in the creation of Munchkin-style characters. Beginning fighters who were looked upon as cheesy and twinkish. Over time, I learned that being the munchkin was boring in Street Fighter. Yes, you win a lot, but at the cost of your fellow players' respect.

Stupid tricks such as the Kabaddi extendible limbs Unhit Wonder. (accomplishable in one of two methods for starting points: Flaws or allowance of Freebies before selecting Powers. The first led to being able to purchase all but the most expensive and difficult maneuvers in the game - Dim Mak, Flaming Dragon Punch, Psycho Crusher - the latter allowing unrestricted purchase of all that the 7 points could provide).

Anyone have experiences with The Munchkin Years before they started to shape up? Or am I the only one who has experienced and grown through that stage still on this list? :)

Example Character: The Kabaddi Unhit Wonder
(uses Flaw system to attain up to 22 Freebie points total)
Str * Dex * * * * * Sta * *
Cha * * Man * * App * *
Per * * Int * * * * Wit * * * *

Abilities were present, but not relevant to this illustration ;)

Techniques:
P * K
B * G
A * * * F * * * * (5 freebies go here)

Special Maneuvers
Shock Treatment - at 15 damage pre-soak, this was a fearsome power for a beginner.
Fireball - Just to provide damage that was not either 1d or 2Chi cost.
Extendible Limbs (16 Freebies go here)

Chi 6 Willpower 2
Health 10 Honor 3 <Glory? This did not exist for me ;)>

The basic tactics were to stay as far away from the enemy as four hexes would allow and strike out with a jab to interrupt. This slip of a girl (about fifteen years old) was among my many 'prodigies' (munchkin justification for 'I got good stats!').

Twice I created this character. The first time was during the period in my life where I thought Roleplaying meant to win. The second time was an amusing anecdote where another GM (I have been a GM for Street Fighter for almost as long as I had been playing it) came to me and told of his players and how a couple of them were abusing the rules. "Take me to your lead munchkin", I told him.

The player in question had used the Player's Guide to (in that player's eyes) best advantage. Animal Hybrid was heavily in use, a Level 5 Tiger hybrid. Strength and Dexterity each at 6, (stamina 2 - Paper Tiger, anyone?) Kick at 5, Focus at 4, and a Kung Fu prodigy to boot. These players had been allowed to use Freebie points before choosing special maneuvers.

No sooner had the match between this player and an NPC begun did I hear the words 'DRAGON KICK!' called out in a proud fashion. The player had one strategy and one strategy alone: Dragon Kick your way to victory. There was one small problem with that plan: Athletics was 2. Dragon Kick has a move modifier of -2. So while the player's strategy was sound in the case of people who would come to grab, it did not bode well for the 10 rounds of being Jabbed by someone sitting four hexes away at all times. Victory was had through patience and having more health at the end. A sad day indeed for the infinite dragon kicker.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

The next horror story comes from a friend of mine who apparently has some experience with being a munchkin while retaining a good roleplayer's attitude. Just as an exercise, we decided to see just how much one could start with for sheer power and range.

Naturally, the Player's Guide was our primary source for data. Secrets oF Shadoloo was the secondary.

The Cybernetics rules state that Each Dot in Cybernetics grants the character an extra set of arms or legs, if they so wish. Each extra set of limbs adds 1 to the character's relevant techniques. Kick and Athletics, in our scenario, for our fighter, a Cybernetic (5) Animal Hybrid (1) (I think we made him a Gerbil Hybrid and gave him a little Gerbil companion as the freebie) (+10 dots base Physical) had five extra sets of legs.

Now the power comes. With a mere 20 Freebies (Flaws again), the character's Athletics and Kick ratings were 10 and 11. (3 pre-background/pre-freebies, +2 Kick and +2 Athletics from Freebies, +1 Athletics from Animal Hybrid, and +5 Kick and +5 Athletics from Cybernetics)

One might imagine we went straight to Cartwheel Kick. Yes. We did indeed. But we had shortly deemed Cartwheel Kick entirely too silly for any campaign. Instead, we turned to the Secrets of Shadoloo for Scissor Kick. This massive warrior of Strength 6, Dexterity 4 and Stamina 3 would perform the single most annoying maneuver I had ever encountered with impunity.

The stats appeared as follows
1 Willpower
Speed +0 (4)
Damage +3 (19) (two damage tests)
Move +3 (14)

We then added a Jump, because seeing someone jump 11 Hexes at a whim is pretty funny.

What did we do with the other three Freebies? (Wu Shu was the style) Well, we decided that any combo that begins with Move is a good one. So Move to Scissor Kick (Dizzies). The (Dizzies) isn't necessary most of the time, as very few people can take even one round of being struck with it.

Aplogies for such a long post. I tend to be verbose when regailing..
Group: streetfighter Message: 14438 From: Claude Smith Date: 5/14/2003
Subject: Re: The Munchkin Years
>
> Aplogies for such a long post. I tend to be verbose when
> regailing..
>
>

Dear Reinard,

It's fine. I found your post extremely enlightening; I'm in
the process of working on a Street Fighter-style tournament
game and am working on ways to keep the players in line. I
also enjoyed the gerbil hybrid with multiple limbs. That's
going in my Octagon division!

Claude Smith

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Group: streetfighter Message: 14439 From: slappy_the_ringthief Date: 5/14/2003
Subject: bye bye
i may be offline for a week or two.

having IRL trouble.

so to all those i said I would give feedback to or help or anything I
have not forgot about you I just have to go get my head on straight.
Group: streetfighter Message: 14440 From: Fox Reinard Date: 5/14/2003
Subject: Re: The Munchkin Years
--- In streetfighter@yahoogroups.com, Claude Smith <ossadagowah@y...> wrote:

> Dear Reinard,
>
> It's fine. I found your post extremely enlightening; I'm in
> the process of working on a Street Fighter-style tournament
> game and am working on ways to keep the players in line. I
> also enjoyed the gerbil hybrid with multiple limbs. That's
> going in my Octagon division!

Dear ghods, please tell me you're kidding :) That thing is a menace that should not have even been put to paper. To this day, it is the reason I believe that cybernetics are in sore need of change. Which is why I have created a new system for Cybernetics, Animal Hybrids, and Elementals (the last did not need change so much, but I like to be internally consistent).

Cybernetics and Animal Hybrids operate under a purchase system for enhanced abilities without (in most cases) giving direct combat bonuses. If a character wants their Toaster to be able to fire off Fireballs out of a cannon, he'll have to purchase the Fireball maneuver and say 'It comes out of my cannon!'. :) Similar, extra limbs rules are a tad ridiculous. Unfortunately, I haven't quite found an alternative system for them.

> Claude Smith
Group: streetfighter Message: 14441 From: Claude Smith Date: 5/14/2003
Subject: Re: bye bye
--- slappy_the_ringthief <ringthief@...> wrote:
> i may be offline for a week or two.
>
> having IRL trouble.
>

Do what you have to do and then come back. We'll wait for
you, buddy.

Claude Smith


=====
http://eckserver.eckerd.edu/~smithcj I am not Bubbles! Bubbles is not my name! For the name Bubbles is not the correct name to address me by because it is not my name! If you were to address me by the name "Mojo Jojo", that would be correct! For my name is Mojo Jojo, and I will only be addressed by that name, which is Mojo Jojo! And furthermore, it is not we who will rule the world, it is I! I being Mojo Jojo, who is not Bubbles, shall rule this world alone, which is to say without anybody else, and without anybody else shall I rule this world!

__________________________________
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Group: streetfighter Message: 14442 From: Claude Smith Date: 5/14/2003
Subject: Re: The Munchkin Years
>I
> > also enjoyed the gerbil hybrid with multiple limbs.
> That's
> > going in my Octagon division!
>
> Dear ghods, please tell me you're kidding :) That thing
> is a menace that should not have even been put to paper.

I should have explained what I am attempting to do. I am
using a version of the Fuzion roleplaying game to run
Street Fighter Style Tournaments. It isn't limited to
the Street Fighter world and many characters from across
the multiverse have been sucked into our reality at the
nexus of all realities: the Florida Everglades.

The Streetfighter Storyteller system is fine but it's not
for me. I like BRP (Cthulhu) and Fuzion for running games.
To each his own. I intend to use the Rules of X (a Fuzion
system for balancing characters) to bring the Gerbil Hybrid
(Gerbimog?) (The Six-Limbed Menace?) (Abominatrix?) to the
tabletop world.

I like the Street Fighter games because they're funny and
full of great ideas that a lot of GMs can use in their
games. That's why I joined the list.

Claude Smith

=====
http://eckserver.eckerd.edu/~smithcj I am not Bubbles! Bubbles is not my name! For the name Bubbles is not the correct name to address me by because it is not my name! If you were to address me by the name "Mojo Jojo", that would be correct! For my name is Mojo Jojo, and I will only be addressed by that name, which is Mojo Jojo! And furthermore, it is not we who will rule the world, it is I! I being Mojo Jojo, who is not Bubbles, shall rule this world alone, which is to say without anybody else, and without anybody else shall I rule this world!

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
http://search.yahoo.com
Group: streetfighter Message: 14443 From: Fox Reinard Date: 5/14/2003
Subject: Re: The Munchkin Years
<SNIP>
> nexus of all realities: the Florida Everglades.

Ah. Multidimensional Fuzion game. Super hero flavor?

> The Streetfighter Storyteller system is fine but it's not
> for me. I like BRP (Cthulhu) and Fuzion for running games.
> To each his own. I intend to use the Rules of X (a Fuzion
> system for balancing characters) to bring the Gerbil Hybrid
> (Gerbimog?) (The Six-Limbed Menace?) (Abominatrix?) to the
> tabletop world.

Fourteen limbs. Four to begin plus ten more. :)

I am familiar with Fuzion's X rule (and the poorly veiled ways around it). Our gaming group had a knack for using the really easily abused systems for play. It's one of the reasons I have the attitude that I do.

> I like the Street Fighter games because they're funny and
> full of great ideas that a lot of GMs can use in their
> games. That's why I joined the list.

I did a bit of the crossdimensional stuff in Street Fighter during my extended tenure as GM. Among my many abominations was a character from the Game Boy fighting game 'Raging Fighter'. Guilga. This was a no-brainer NPC for sheet because he would simply mimic whoever he fought, with just slightly improved stats. Of all the cooler characters from that game, Guilga was kept and is most memorable.

Then there was the time I was annoying and used a gargoyle (had inherent Maka Wara) who would be uncooperative and ornery. I don't remember the circumstance, but one of the PCs wanted something from him. He smiled and challenged, "Speak my name."

He had introduced himself moments before as
'Asmoranomardicadaistinaculdacar' (5 pt reference)

> Claude Smith

Fox Reinard
Group: streetfighter Message: 14444 From: Fox Reinard Date: 5/14/2003
Subject: Update
I've updated a large part of Street Fighter V.2.0 (HTMLified the stuff)

Fire away with comments at lesiure.
Group: streetfighter Message: 14445 From: Fox Reinard Date: 5/14/2003
Subject: Optional Rules proposal
Optional Uses of Chi and Willpower

These are rules that have come to mind as potential extras for using the expendables in combat and outside of combat.

Assensing
Requires Focus 2
A character may use 1 Chi to get a feel for the ambient mood of their immediate surroundings. This is a minor form of psychometry, and doesn't give information beyond strong emotional content of a location. eg, if a thousand people were slaughtered fifty years before, there would be a sense of sorrow or anguish.

This is just an exerpt from what I've written up for using Chi and Willpower for things other than success tests and powering maneuvers. Thoughts? Suggestions? I'm working on no sleep, so that's all I've come up with so far on this particular subject.

Fox
Group: streetfighter Message: 14446 From: Fox Reinard Date: 5/14/2003
Subject: The Flood Continues
Group: streetfighter Message: 14447 From: Fox Reinard Date: 5/14/2003
Subject: The Flood Continues
Sorry for the last post if it went through and showed a blank message. A moderator would do well to delete it from the archive :) I've been posting exclusively from within Yahoogroups.

The post. This is on the Basic maneuver Grab, a suggestion for why it has the stats it does.

Basic Grab

In the rulebook, this maneuver has no effect, acting similar to a Punch or Kick, but ignoring Blocks entirely. The speed of it is faster than most grab manevuers, and the damage is better than a jab. So.. perhaps the system for this particular maneuver was simply omitted from the original print?

For one, it has to do something in order to do damage. But it has the equivelant power of a Short kick. So perhaps it's simply a quick grab-n-knee? A single-hit knee as it were? Slightly slower because you have to grab on to the target, doing the same damage as a double hit knee that has one hit.

An especially nasty variant would be similar to Sophitia from Soul Blade. "I'm sorry..." That was an amusing session.. cries of apology ran through the half hour it took interrupted only when facing another female warrior. My friend affectionately named the attack 'Cheap Shot to Apology (Dizzies)'

Thoughts?
Group: streetfighter Message: 14448 From: Jens-Arthur Leirbakk Date: 5/15/2003
Subject: Re: The Flood Continues
Well, this have been a discussion on this group previously as well. What
is the Grab basic? A quick squeeze and then let go? Should it be a
Sustained Hold - and if so, is it too powerful compared with the other
basic maneuvers?

The discussion ended up with defining the Grab as being an "Atomic Drop" -
similar in thought and execution as the Sophitia maneuver. And soon,
there'll be Soul Calibur 2 available for the people that don't read
kanji... And it will be wild goodness.

On Thu, 15 May 2003, Fox Reinard wrote:

> Sorry for the last post if it went through and showed a blank message. A moderator would do well to delete it from the archive :) I've been posting exclusively from within Yahoogroups.
>
> The post. This is on the Basic maneuver Grab, a suggestion for why it has the stats it does.
>
> Basic Grab
>
> In the rulebook, this maneuver has no effect, acting similar to a Punch or Kick, but ignoring Blocks entirely. The speed of it is faster than most grab manevuers, and the damage is better than a jab. So.. perhaps the system for this particular maneuver was simply omitted from the original print?
>
> For one, it has to do something in order to do damage. But it has the equivelant power of a Short kick. So perhaps it's simply a quick grab-n-knee? A single-hit knee as it were? Slightly slower because you have to grab on to the target, doing the same damage as a double hit knee that has one hit.
>
> An especially nasty variant would be similar to Sophitia from Soul Blade. "I'm sorry..." That was an amusing session.. cries of apology ran through the half hour it took interrupted only when facing another female warrior. My friend affectionately named the attack 'Cheap Shot to Apology (Dizzies)'
>
> Thoughts?
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

---
Jens-Arthur Leirbakk
leirbakk@...
Group: streetfighter Message: 14449 From: Herve Gander Date: 5/15/2003
Subject: Re: The Munchkin Years
Hello,

Your story was quite amusing and made me start the day with a
smile....thanks..

Several people have say that animal hybrid or cybernetics background are
just bad or ridiculous...and overpowered.

Yes, but the GameMaster is there for that...he is the judge, he autorise the
use and the avaibility of such or such style, maneuver, background.

The GM don't want something, that doesn't exit or is unavailable.

for my part, i introduced the cybernetics in my campaign, but as I decided
it. I allocated the point, and i decided what was cybernetics...of course
this was done with already existing character and was due to some events in
the game (a car crash and the evil guy that rescued the sexy female
streetfighter and saved her life with some implantation of new technologie
developped by a mad scientist)

Just to say that all those background or overpowered maneuvers are only
overpowered if the GM allow them. After you can't say that it's the player
fault.

Have a nice day

Hervé


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.481 / Virus Database: 277 - Release Date: 13/05/2003
Group: streetfighter Message: 14450 From: Fox Reinard Date: 5/15/2003
Subject: Re: The Munchkin Years
> Your story was quite amusing and made me start the day with a
> smile....thanks..

I have many like it. Stupid Munchkin Tricks, as it were. The Player's Guide=
was largely responsible for most of them.

> Yes, but the GameMaster is there for that...he is the judge, he autorise =
the
> use and the avaibility of such or such style, maneuver, background.

There is much truth in this statement. Though some GMs don't have quite the=
same clues as to what /to/ allow for their specific games. I had some stran=
ger ones, including one who had no concept of How To Build Your Character Up=
From Scratch. We the players were given 45 Esperience points right off the =
bat.

In commemoration of this silly GM, I made a silly concept. The Red Heron. (=
play on Red Herring)

The character practiced Sanbo. While this is not funny by itself, consider =
the character was a teenaged boy with Strength 1, Dex 5, and Grab 3, Focus 3=
, Punch 2. Maneuvers taken were Suplex, Fireball, and some other maneuver to=
talling 1 point. After Freebies, This was silly. (focus 5) Ridiculous was Re=
peating Fireball.

> The GM don't want something, that doesn't exit or is unavailable.
> for my part, i introduced the cybernetics in my campaign, but as I decide=
d
> it. I allocated the point, and i decided what was cybernetics...of course=

> this was done with already existing character and was due to some events =
in
> the game (a car crash and the evil guy that rescued the sexy female
> streetfighter and saved her life with some implantation of new technologi=
e
> developped by a mad scientist)

A good way to handle introducing them into the game. In the Optional rules =
I'm adding to the existing V.2.0 system, Cybernetics is a Merit, and the toa=
sters' implants are additional Merits which can be purchased either with Fre=
ebie Points or with Cybernetic Flaw points. Cybernetic Flaws are like normal=
Flaws, except there is no upper limit to how many may be taken and they may=
only be used in purchase of Cybernetic Implants (implants are not combative=
benefits. They are special additions to a character to enhance Roleplay or =
to provide some form of advantage where a normal human would not have)

> Just to say that all those background or overpowered maneuvers are only
> overpowered if the GM allow them. After you can't say that it's the playe=
r
> fault.

Agreed again. Though some GMs also like to include these 'overpowered' thin=
gs because they look pretty or they have begging players. My method is to al=
ter them (to what tastes I have) to provide them as an option still.

> Have a nice day

Thank you :>

> Hervé

Fox Reinard
Group: streetfighter Message: 14451 From: Claude Smith Date: 5/15/2003
Subject: Re: The Munchkin Years
> Several people have say that animal hybrid or cybernetics
> background are
> just bad or ridiculous...and overpowered.

The Street Fighter RPG has a built in feature to take care
of munchkins. It's called Gouki (Akuma).

Claude Smith

=====
http://eckserver.eckerd.edu/~smithcj I am not Bubbles! Bubbles is not my name! For the name Bubbles is not the correct name to address me by because it is not my name! If you were to address me by the name "Mojo Jojo", that would be correct! For my name is Mojo Jojo, and I will only be addressed by that name, which is Mojo Jojo! And furthermore, it is not we who will rule the world, it is I! I being Mojo Jojo, who is not Bubbles, shall rule this world alone, which is to say without anybody else, and without anybody else shall I rule this world!

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
http://search.yahoo.com
Group: streetfighter Message: 14452 From: Claude Smith Date: 5/15/2003
Subject: Re: The Munchkin Years
> > it. I allocated the point, and i decided what was
> cybernetics...> A good way to handle introducing them
>into the game. In
> the Optional rules =
> I'm adding to the existing V.2.0 system, Cybernetics is a
> Merit, and the toa=
> sters' implants are additional Merits which can be
> purchased either with Fre=
> ebie Points or with Cybernetic Flaw points. Cybernetic

I unfortunately lack the Street Fighter RPG rules and so
please forgive me if what I say is redundant. Are there any
rules for malfunctioning cyberware? If not, there should
be. Think of all the times you've had to reboot your PC
(and yes, I've even had to reboot Macs and Sparc
workstations -- no computer is perfect. They're all just
different; however, I'm getting distracted from my main
point.) If there are no perfect machines, there is no such
thing as perfect cyberware. If it locks up and freezes
during a match, there could be serious consequences. What
if a character has another guy in a headlock when his
system crashes? He might end up unintentionally killing the
guy.

("Your Honor. I had no control over my arm's actions. It
went off on its own.")

Claude Smith

=====
http://eckserver.eckerd.edu/~smithcj I am not Bubbles! Bubbles is not my name! For the name Bubbles is not the correct name to address me by because it is not my name! If you were to address me by the name "Mojo Jojo", that would be correct! For my name is Mojo Jojo, and I will only be addressed by that name, which is Mojo Jojo! And furthermore, it is not we who will rule the world, it is I! I being Mojo Jojo, who is not Bubbles, shall rule this world alone, which is to say without anybody else, and without anybody else shall I rule this world!

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
http://search.yahoo.com
Group: streetfighter Message: 14453 From: Deslongchamps, Michael Joseph (UMR-Stude Date: 5/15/2003
Subject: Re: The Munchkin Years
AMEN BROTHER!

-----Original Message-----
From: Claude Smith [mailto:ossadagowah@...]
Sent: Thu 5/15/2003 6:47 AM
To: streetfighter@yahoogroups.com
Cc:
Subject: Re: [streetfighter] The Munchkin Years



> Several people have say that animal hybrid or cybernetics
> background are
> just bad or ridiculous...and overpowered.

The Street Fighter RPG has a built in feature to take care
of munchkins. It's called Gouki (Akuma).

Claude Smith

=====
http://eckserver.eckerd.edu/~smithcj I am not Bubbles! Bubbles is not my name! For the name Bubbles is not the correct name to address me by because it is not my name! If you were to address me by the name "Mojo Jojo", that would be correct! For my name is Mojo Jojo, and I will only be addressed by that name, which is Mojo Jojo! And furthermore, it is not we who will rule the world, it is I! I being Mojo Jojo, who is not Bubbles, shall rule this world alone, which is to say without anybody else, and without anybody else shall I rule this world!

__________________________________
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The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: streetfighter Message: 14454 From: Gwenhwyvar Valia Lillith Baker Date: 5/17/2003
Subject: Re: bye bye
I know it's been a while, but still, i you feel the need to talk...
although I don't have ICQ, theres always Yahoo, or email.
Group: streetfighter Message: 14455 From: Gwenhwyvar Valia Lillith Baker Date: 5/17/2003
Subject: Re: The Munchkin Years
I for my part never found them to be overpowerfull. In need of some
tweaking yes, but not too powerful. Any backround at 5 is extremly
powerful. Wether it be Cybernetics or Ressources going through
Allies. Any one of them can be a problem if you don't know how to
handle it. The only differance with Hybrid and Cybernetics, is that
they give combat advantages right from the start. If you don't know
how to handle it, it can be a problem, but then again, if you don't
know how to handle it, don't use it.

By the way, I'm starting to build up a site. Nothing much there as of
now, but eventualy there will be some nice stuff. Including my own
campaign world, which isn't your usua; Street Fighter world, but it
uses the Street Fighter rules, well mostly. Well anyways, you can
always have a look just in case, the little that is on might interest
you in some way or another.
http://www.angelfire.com/dragon/fallen_angels/index.html

- May the moon shine brightly upon your dreams, and the Lady bring
them to reality.
Group: streetfighter Message: 14456 From: Fox Reinard Date: 5/19/2003
Subject: Re: The Munchkin Years
"Gwenhwyvar Valia Lillith Baker" <shallow_one@h...> wrote:

<snip>

> If you don't know
> how to handle it, it can be a problem, but then again, if you don't
> know how to handle it, don't use it.

I do know how to handle it. My problem with it stems from the obvious benefit of the two backgrounds. Allow me to give a rundown of what a single dot in Animal Hybrid does:

* +2 Physical, -1 Mental, -1 Social (Forced to allot 7/5/3 as Physical, Mental, Social, then modify) (0)
* Strength, Dexterity, and Stamina at a maximum of 6 during character generation (A 2-3 pt Merit, x3, according to some house rules) (6-9)
* Animal Companion +2 (2)
* Athletics +1 (5)
* Social Max 4 (counters the Physicals, though since Flaws are generally worth less than Merits that do the reverse, I would say this is not a 1 for 1 reversal) (-3)
* Ability to Frenzy in combat (-4)
* Restricted Ability purchase (not worth points as a flaw, IMHO, since a character concept can dictate their skills far better than any merit or background)

So what we have here, is a net of (6 or 9 + 2 + 5) - (4 + 3) = (6 or 9) -- 6 or 9 pts net worth of bonuses for 1 Background point.


The flipside:
Cybernetics Analysis
* +1 Physical or Mental, -1 Social: We'll say this is not worth a bonus or penalty for simplicity's sake.
* Experience Cost for Super Human stats bonus/Penalty: We'll say that both Physical and Mental attributes being x4 no matter how high they are raised is okay, where Social always being x6 is okay. Just because Social in this case is really important, the bonuses/penalties will cancel each other out and not be worth more points)
* Additional Abilities: +2 Intimidation, +1 Interrogation, +1 Computer, +1 Medicine: This is worth points. 10 Freebies, in fact.
* +2 Health Levels: 6 Freebies.
* -2 Honor Dots: 10 Flaw points. I'll be nice about this.
* Simulate Focus with Background: This is a merit. I'll call it only 5 pts. It is very powerful.
* Spend Health as Chi: another 5 pt Merit. This is powerful as well (Moreso in my own modifications)

So: Our total is a net of (5 + 5 + 6 + 10) - (10) = 16.
16 points for 1 Background point.

So between the two, if you were to pay 2 Background Points, you would gain 22 Freebie points worth of stuff. And this isn't showing what happens when a Cyborg decides to take additional Limbs and Torso (potential of +40 pts worth of stuff for +4 Background points)

THIS is why I don't like the way Cybernetics and Animal Hybrid are done. A background should never provide this kind of direct combat benefit.

Resources is powerful? Yes. At 5, resources is powerful. But how much does Resources help you when someone strips you down of all your toys because they overpowered you and starts punching?

No one gets things for free. Paying 1 pt for either of these things to me, is getting many things for free.

Sorry for the rant. :) I do have a solution for these two dilemmas (for the revision I intend to complete): Merits.
* Animal Hybrid as a Merit grants a cool appearance (not flawed version) and access to the Rage rules.
* Cybernetics has the power to spend Health as Chi.
Both of these are able to build their own Cyborg/Half Animal character with various Merits and Flaws specific to Hybrids and Cyborgs. Few of the merits grant a direct combat benefit, or rather, none that could be simulated by simply spending points on Stats. The Merits can be bought using Freebie points, and the Flaws grant an additional pool of points that can only be spent on the appropriate Merits. Yes, Animal/Cyborg flaws can pay for the respective single merit.

<SNIP>

> you in some way or another.
> http://www.angelfire.com/dragon/fallen_angels/index.html

Looks like you have quite the work ahead of you. Good luck with it!

Fox Reinard
Group: streetfighter Message: 14457 From: Gwenhwyvar Valia Lillith Baker Date: 5/19/2003
Subject: Re: The Munchkin Years
Thats why I said it needed tweaking :OÞ
I'll have my rules on Hybrids and Cyborg up sometime soon.
This Discution makes me think it'll be the first thing on Street
Fighter to up up there :o)
Yeps.... think they should be up there sometime this week.
Group: streetfighter Message: 14458 From: theeslimshady Date: 5/19/2003
Subject: Hi
Hi:) I've been checking out the various versions of Street
Fighter: STG, and found it a fascinating subject. I was wondering if
anyone here is running an online campaign or knows someone who is,
because I would like to try out playing it. If you are, or know
someone who is, I have 3 e-mail addresses: theeslimshady@...,
theeslimshady@... and navarre1975@... . I also have
AIM (FeydMercury), ICQ (21118572), MSN ( theeslimshady@... )
and Yahoo IM (theeslimshady). Thanks for taking the time to read
this; I'm looking forward to hearing from you and learning more
personally:)

Brian McMichael
Group: streetfighter Message: 14459 From: Shinzite Date: 5/20/2003
Subject: Yo everyone i am Back
It seems i was mistakenly taken off the list. But i have corrected
the problem Bwa ha ha ha!

Cliff
Group: streetfighter Message: 14460 From: Fox Reinard Date: 5/21/2003
Subject: It's finally done...
I have converted the -entirety- of Warrior's World to HTML. This took me quite some time, but I think it is worth it for such a valuable resource. It's not great, but it's clear.

http://www.comnet.ca/~freinard/sf/warw.html is the link to it. Enjoy.

Now back to working on the rest of the revisions...

Fox Reinard
Group: streetfighter Message: 14461 From: slappy_the_ringthief Date: 5/21/2003
Subject: Re: The Flood Continues
--- In streetfighter@yahoogroups.com, "Fox Reinard" <kyubiko@y...>
wrote:
> An especially nasty variant would be similar to Sophitia from Soul
Blade. "I'm sorry..." That was an amusing session.. cries of apology
ran through the half hour it took interrupted only when facing
another female warrior. My friend affectionately named the
attack 'Cheap Shot to Apology (Dizzies)'
>
> Thoughts?

ha, that reminds me of the night my gf played.
I was pretty open about changing how moves look but using existing
moves stats (to keep game balance) and lets just say she had
a "Wounded Knee" that where the knee was no longer the target, but it
*was* the weapon (she liked the mechanic of messing you up for the
next 2 rounds)

She was supposed to meet my current group in a tournament but ended
up embarressing the hell out of one of them by ending the fight (and
losing boo-koo honor) with this move while he was dizzy. (in front of
about every NPC he would have ever cared about impressing)

then she never feels like playing again so he was a chump all for
nothing.
Group: streetfighter Message: 14462 From: slappy_the_ringthief Date: 5/21/2003
Subject: Re: bye bye
Im back now.
answering from work, wont be actually home on *my* PC to check out
all the new stuff ppl are making for another couple days.

--- In streetfighter@yahoogroups.com, "slappy_the_ringthief"
<ringthief@c...> wrote:
> i may be offline for a week or two.
>
> having IRL trouble.
>
> so to all those i said I would give feedback to or help or anything
I
> have not forgot about you I just have to go get my head on straight.
Group: streetfighter Message: 14463 From: Gwenhwyvar Valia Lillith Baker Date: 5/21/2003
Subject: Re: It's finally done...
Just one question. Where are the focus maneuvers for the new
elemental backrounds? They look interesting but... their nowhere...
kinda... messes up the fun there could have been in trying them out...
Group: streetfighter Message: 14464 From: Gwenhwyvar Valia Lillith Baker Date: 5/21/2003
Subject: Re: bye bye
Glad ye are back and well. *bows in polite courtesy and smiles*
Group: streetfighter Message: 14465 From: snoreboy01 Date: 5/21/2003
Subject: New Blood
Hi there all, hows it going? I'm Snoreboy01, and its great to find
some people who still like the streetfighter rpg. :)
I thought I was the only one who even bought the books. :)
I only have the shadowloo, contenders, GM Screen and the core book.
Anyone know of any other books that where made?
Group: streetfighter Message: 14466 From: Fox Reinard Date: 5/21/2003
Subject: Re: It's finally done...
--- In streetfighter@yahoogroups.com, "Gwenhwyvar Valia Lillith Baker" <shallow_one@h...> wrote:
> Just one question. Where are the focus maneuvers for the new
> elemental backrounds? They look interesting but... their nowhere...
> kinda... messes up the fun there could have been in trying them out...

The writer of Warrior's World didn't include said things. He also left out a number of manevuers' Power Point costs. As I spoke at the beginning, it is unchanged from the original save for formatting and minor editing errors.

On another note!

I have completed the first draft for the creation of Special Maneuvers, on paper. Now all I need to do is test it more. Looks promising.
Group: streetfighter Message: 14467 From: cliff rice Date: 5/21/2003
Subject: Re: It's finally done...
on the maaster secrets i have taken everything from
warriors world and aded what i thought their values
should be. Its in the file vault if it helpe. i
beleive that i also did soem elemental junk up too.

Cliff
--- Fox Reinard <kyubiko@...> wrote:
> --- In streetfighter@yahoogroups.com, "Gwenhwyvar
> Valia Lillith Baker" <shallow_one@h...> wrote:
> > Just one question. Where are the focus maneuvers
> for the new
> > elemental backrounds? They look interesting but...
> their nowhere...
> > kinda... messes up the fun there could have been
> in trying them out...
>
> The writer of Warrior's World didn't include said
> things. He also left out a number of manevuers'
> Power Point costs. As I spoke at the beginning, it
> is unchanged from the original save for formatting
> and minor editing errors.
>
> On another note!
>
> I have completed the first draft for the creation of
> Special Maneuvers, on paper. Now all I need to do is
> test it more. Looks promising.
>
>


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
http://search.yahoo.com
Group: streetfighter Message: 14468 From: MikeM Date: 5/21/2003
Subject: Re: New Blood
Well there is the player's guide, but most people here dont like it.

Welcome to the list too.

MikeM

-----Original Message-----
From: snoreboy01 [mailto:snoreboy01@...]
Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2003 7:14 PM
To: streetfighter@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [streetfighter] New Blood


Hi there all, hows it going? I'm Snoreboy01, and its great to find
some people who still like the streetfighter rpg. :)
I thought I was the only one who even bought the books. :)
I only have the shadowloo, contenders, GM Screen and the core book.
Anyone know of any other books that where made?




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Group: streetfighter Message: 14469 From: Fred Chagnon Date: 5/22/2003
Subject: Re: New Blood
Don't forget The Perfect Warrior.
I have all the books listed on my incomplete Street Fighter RPG site
that will likely never get finished because I have no time.

http://www.minix.ca/sfstg/resources.html


| -----Original Message-----
| From: MikeM [mailto:mmorgado@...]
| Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2003 10:17 PM
| To: streetfighter@yahoogroups.com
| Subject: RE: [streetfighter] New Blood
|
|
| Well there is the player's guide, but most people here dont like it.
|
| Welcome to the list too.
|
| MikeM
|
| -----Original Message-----
| From: snoreboy01 [mailto:snoreboy01@...]
| Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2003 7:14 PM
| To: streetfighter@yahoogroups.com
| Subject: [streetfighter] New Blood
|
|
| Hi there all, hows it going? I'm Snoreboy01, and its great to find
| some people who still like the streetfighter rpg. :)
| I thought I was the only one who even bought the books. :)
| I only have the shadowloo, contenders, GM Screen and the core
| book. Anyone know of any other books that where made?
|
|
|
|
| Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
|
<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=251812.3170658.4537139.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705
057147:HM/A=1564416/R=0/*http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60164797&pa
rtid=3170658>

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pmail/S=:HM/A=1564416/rand=631050692>

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<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
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Group: streetfighter Message: 14470 From: ~S Date: 5/22/2003
Subject: Re: New Blood
And of course, "Shadows over Mexico"

<G>
~S

----- Original Message -----
From: "Fred Chagnon" <seagull@...>
To: <streetfighter@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2003 8:02 AM
Subject: RE: [streetfighter] New Blood


> Don't forget The Perfect Warrior.
> I have all the books listed on my incomplete Street Fighter RPG site
> that will likely never get finished because I have no time.
>
> http://www.minix.ca/sfstg/resources.html
>
>
> | -----Original Message-----
> | From: MikeM [mailto:mmorgado@...]
> | Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2003 10:17 PM
> | To: streetfighter@yahoogroups.com
> | Subject: RE: [streetfighter] New Blood
> |
> |
> | Well there is the player's guide, but most people here dont like it.
> |
> | Welcome to the list too.
> |
> | MikeM
> |
> | -----Original Message-----
> | From: snoreboy01 [mailto:snoreboy01@...]
> | Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2003 7:14 PM
> | To: streetfighter@yahoogroups.com
> | Subject: [streetfighter] New Blood
> |
> |
> | Hi there all, hows it going? I'm Snoreboy01, and its great to find
> | some people who still like the streetfighter rpg. :)
> | I thought I was the only one who even bought the books. :)
> | I only have the shadowloo, contenders, GM Screen and the core
> | book. Anyone know of any other books that where made?
> |
> |
> |
> |
> | Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> |
> <http://rd.yahoo.com/M=251812.3170658.4537139.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705
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> rtid=3170658>
>
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> pmail/S=:HM/A=1564416/rand=631050692>
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> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
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> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
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Group: streetfighter Message: 14471 From: slappy_the_ringthief Date: 5/22/2003
Subject: Re: New Blood
not to mention fred's highly usefull links directly into the ebay
search cgi.

and welcome, Snoreboy01

matt
http://matt.luvs.it

--- In streetfighter@yahoogroups.com, "Fred Chagnon" <seagull@a...>
wrote:
> Don't forget The Perfect Warrior.
> I have all the books listed on my incomplete Street Fighter RPG site
> that will likely never get finished because I have no time.
>
> http://www.minix.ca/sfstg/resources.html

>
> | -----Original Message-----
> | From: MikeM [mailto:mmorgado@s...]
> | Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2003 10:17 PM
> | To: streetfighter@yahoogroups.com
> | Subject: RE: [streetfighter] New Blood
> |
> |
> | Well there is the player's guide, but most people here dont like
it.
> |
> | Welcome to the list too.
> |
> | MikeM
> |
> | -----Original Message-----
> | From: snoreboy01 [mailto:snoreboy01@y...]
> | Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2003 7:14 PM
> | To: streetfighter@yahoogroups.com
> | Subject: [streetfighter] New Blood
> |
> |
> | Hi there all, hows it going? I'm Snoreboy01, and its great to
find
> | some people who still like the streetfighter rpg. :)
> | I thought I was the only one who even bought the books. :)
> | I only have the shadowloo, contenders, GM Screen and the core
> | book. Anyone know of any other books that where made?
> |
> |
> |
> |
> | Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> |
>
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mqso=60164797&pa
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M=251812.3170658.4537139.1261774/D=egrou
> pmail/S=:HM/A=1564416/rand=631050692>
>
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> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>
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Group: streetfighter Message: 14472 From: Eric Date: 5/22/2003
Subject: Gouken' style
The Ansatsuken variation used by Goutetsu, Gouki (Akuma), Gouken and taughted for Ryu, Ken and Dan are based on Shotokan Karate. The explanation:
All begins on Iincyo, a girl of Rival Schools: Project Justice (a game released by Capcom). She fights Saikyo, a variation of Gouken's style created by Dan.
The endgame of Iincyo shows her performing the "Heian Shodan", a first kata of Shotokan Karate. How this is possible? It's sample: Saikyo is a copy of Gouken's style, and Heian Shodan is a Shotokan kata. Gouken's (and Goutetsu's) style is a Shotokan Karate with the Ansatsuken (the killing arts).


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: streetfighter Message: 14473 From: Gwenhwyvar Valia Lillith Baker Date: 5/22/2003
Subject: Re: New Blood
Welcome. Hope you can enjoy yourself. It's a nice place, even if it's
quiet at times. It's usualy worth the wait. Again welcome.