> I would be much more interested to see how you think the move

should > be done than all the things you see wrong with how i did
it. that > would be more constructive.


Raging Demon (Focus Maneuver)
Prerequisites: Punch 5, Focus 6
Power Points: Shotokan Karate, Kabaddi, Baraqah 5
System: This move has damage based on Punch, and ignores Block. It
hits once for every 2 points of Focus the user has (round up). The
move costs 2 Chi to initiate, + 1 Chi extra for each point of Honor
its victim has. This extra cost is paid only if the maneuver hits
the opponent.
Cost: 2 Chi + "extra" Chi
Speed: +2
Damage: +0
Move: +0

This ties in the whole, 'sins of the opponent dragging them down into
hell', as well as the 'KABLAMMO' factor.


On a separate note, should Akuma really have 0 Honor? From what I
understand, he doesn't kill unworthy opponents or innocents... he's
evil, but still operates by an honorable (though deadly) personal
code.

He'd kill Gen or Bison, maybe Ken or Guile, but certainly not someone
who wouldn't try to fight him.

...its just weird stuff our GM threw into so

> that we couldn't keep making every move a fireball or
> what not so I've grown used to it.

As if, somehow, a Fireball (or other projectile other than the
Repeating Fireball) is useful.

> Raging Demon (Focus Maneuver)
> Prerequisites: Punch 5, Focus 6
> Power Points: Shotokan Karate, Kabaddi, Baraqah 5
> System: This move has damage based on Punch, and ignores Block. It
> hits once for every 2 points of Focus the user has (round up). The
> move costs 2 Chi to initiate, + 1 Chi extra for each point of Honor
> its victim has. This extra cost is paid only if the maneuver hits
> the opponent.
> Cost: 2 Chi + "extra" Chi
> Speed: +2
> Damage: +0
> Move: +0

This is my first 'kick at the can', so to speak. I included Kabaddi
and Baraqah since they seem like the kind of arts that would dabble
in demon-powered moves.

The abominable speed is there only because (in the videogame) you can
almost always pull off the move against a knocked-down opponent. As
well, its Speed is low enough that an opponent can Abort to a Jump
and get out of the way.

...which would also require the addition to the System:
"This move cannot be part of a Combo."

--- mean_liar <mean_liar@...> wrote:

> ...its just weird stuff our GM threw into so
> > that we couldn't keep making every move a fireball
> or
> > what not so I've grown used to it.
>
> As if, somehow, a Fireball (or other projectile
> other than the
> Repeating Fireball) is useful.
>

Maybe I should have clarified that better, so we
didn't just rely on moves that cost chi or wil once
our honor got to the point that we pretty much could.

>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/

--- In streetfighter@y..., "Dennis Bryant" <gvwinterdawn@h...> wrote:

> Ok, this is just a thought off the top of my head, & would probably

suck in

> the game, but....how about- Shun Goku Satsu: speed -1, Damage -5,

Move +3.

> Special: Roll for Damage 15 times.

thats a lot of rolling, it might work though.

> The sheet does look really nice, as does
> the story sheet(though I think there's one typo where you dropped a

d off

> the end of a word),

figures, i was tired as hell doing it:)

> I hope this is at all usefull to you. Also, the pics of Juli &

Juni you

> wanted, do they need to be Capcom, or would really good fan art do?

i only use official capcom pics. Ill probably make up a page about
the rules of my little contest.

> Oh, &
> programmer friend of mine who's playing in my game is gonna look at
> rewriting your combat chart generator(it's really cool, but runs

really

> slowly, espesially on my PC, & it could be streamlined quite a

lot),


thats great news!
I know next to nothing about JavaScript. I bought a book on it and
pretty much just learned how to do what i needed to do.
so that script is like ALL i know about it.

If your friend makes it better thats great, I would really like if it
were an exe, that way you wouldnt have to worry about browser
compatibility.


Matt

--- In streetfighter@y..., "mean_liar" <mean_liar@h...> wrote:

> Raging Demon (Focus Maneuver)
> Prerequisites: Punch 5, Focus 6
> Power Points: Shotokan Karate, Kabaddi, Baraqah 5
> System: This move has damage based on Punch, and ignores Block. It
> hits once for every 2 points of Focus the user has (round up). The
> move costs 2 Chi to initiate, + 1 Chi extra for each point of Honor
> its victim has. This extra cost is paid only if the maneuver hits
> the opponent.
> Cost: 2 Chi + "extra" Chi
> Speed: +2
> Damage: +0
> Move: +0

thanks, its nice to see someone who will actually put forth this
effort and create something himself instead of to just not do
anything but heckle.

> On a separate note, should Akuma really have 0 Honor? From what I
> understand, he doesn't kill unworthy opponents or innocents... he's
> evil, but still operates by an honorable (though deadly) personal
> code.
>
> He'd kill Gen or Bison, maybe Ken or Guile, but certainly not

someone

> who wouldn't try to fight him.

I actually struggled with this for a while. I started out giving him
1 point in honor, but the more i thought about it the less i liked it.

1. he kills ppl regularly, everyone he fights from what i can tell,
he uncovered shotokans "killing arts"

2. he robs you of your chi, that cant be good. thats kinda your life
force.

3. aside from the normal ppl he kills, he started his storyline by
murdering his master and brother.

4. he seeks now to corrupt an honerable fighter like ryu.

5. while he does seem to have a code he goes by, i dont think it is
the code of honor. I think he's mainly concerned with growing in
power by fighting worthy opponents. because he sees fighting weaker
ppl as a waste of his time since he is only concerned with amassing
power is not necessarily 'good'

so basicly upon analyzing his inner workings, h seems to only be
driven by lust for power. he craves growing more powerfull to the
point that he will ignore warnings from his master, and kill anyone
who stands in his way. Not very honorable.

If you can convince me otherwise though i'd love to hear it.

lol,
these damn powerfull focus characters have to be stopped!

--- In streetfighter@y..., "mean_liar" <mean_liar@h...> wrote:
> ...its just weird stuff our GM threw into so
> > that we couldn't keep making every move a fireball or
> > what not so I've grown used to it.
>
> As if, somehow, a Fireball (or other projectile other than the
> Repeating Fireball) is useful.

ok, im going to stop arguing with you on this because its pointless
and you want to be rude about it and imply that anyone who disagrees
just isnt as observant to details as you.

--- In streetfighter@y..., "Dennis Bryant" <gvwinterdawn@h...> wrote:
> I agree that most anime has a lot of thing in common. & as I said,
I
> probably pay more atention to the subtleties than most. I'm not
saying that
> Anime is the most diverse style of art, but there are often more
differances
> than a lot of people think.

> 1. he kills ppl regularly, everyone he fights from what i can tell,
> he uncovered shotokans "killing arts"

Yeah, but to me thats just hardcore Bushido. A fight is to the
death, always.

> 2. he robs you of your chi, that cant be good. thats kinda your

life > force.

Where does this come from? The anime series? I'm not familiar with
this aspect of Akuma.

> 3. aside from the normal ppl he kills, he started his storyline by
> murdering his master and brother.

But, in honorable combat. And its not like he's like Bison, killing
innocents and such.

> 4. he seeks now to corrupt an honerable fighter like ryu.

To me (this may just be justification since I really like the Akuma
character concept) I'm thinking he's trying to get Ryu to turn his
back on this Street Fighting 'sport' (knockouts? bah) and embrace
Shotokan as a 'fighting' (to the death) art. If its not to the
death, its only a sport.

> 5. while he does seem to have a code he goes by, i dont think it is
> the code of honor. I think he's mainly concerned with growing in
> power by fighting worthy opponents. because he sees fighting

weaker > ppl as a waste of his time since he is only concerned with
amassing > power is not necessarily 'good'

...which is based on the 'stealing chi' concept. Not familiar with
it at all, though in my case I don't know if it would change my
concept of him. He's just too darn cool to not have Honor.

> If you can convince me otherwise though i'd love to hear it.

Well, I'm just giving you my take on it. Overall, the conversions
are going to be your creations... a Street Fighting gestalt. ;o In
view of that, they would fit better together holistically with you
running the show.


For me, I love Sagat and Akuma both. So, Sagat is the Alpha 3 Sagat
(as in, has Honor, rejects Shadoloo and Bison, but isn't anyone's
friend), and Akuma is a supreme badass, a warrior's warrior (high
Honor), even though he's evil. Bison has no honor because he kills
innocent people, and Balrog has no honor because he's greedy and is
basically a thug with little redeeming qualities. But Sagat and
Akuma? Well, they're too close to my heart to not have Honor. In
Akuma's case specifically, I don't have him stealing any Chi, so he's
got to have Honor to fight the way he does.

;)

Don't worry though. Geese and Rugal plug the gaps these two would
otherwise leave behind.

As you can see, for me it works -- but thats because holisitcally,
I've created a campaign wherein the thematic gaps caused by the
changes in these characters are filled with other characters, so it
works out fine.


Just something to consider.

...and Balrog has no honor because he's greedy and is

> basically a thug with little redeeming qualities.

That being said, I like playing him in the games enough that I
actually *do* think of him as a redeemable character, in that his
roots are honest and good, though his current state is decidedly not
so.

But a charging punch cancelled to a full-bore turn punch cancelled to
a super drill punch is enough to make anyone special. Too bad I've
never done it out of practice mode.

--- In streetfighter@y..., "mean_liar" <mean_liar@h...> wrote:

> > 1. he kills ppl regularly, everyone he fights from what i can

tell,

> > he uncovered shotokans "killing arts"
>
> Yeah, but to me thats just hardcore Bushido. A fight is to the
> death, always.
>

so if i decided to fight you and kill you i would be a good guy?
is that what your parents would think when they burried you? "Wow,
matt has great bushido! he just nutted up and killed someone!"

fighting to the death is only ok when both parties like it that way.
this is not the case when akuma jumps suddenly into a sporting
tournament, or confronts ryu in his daily business, or walks up to
goutetsu and just kills him out of the blue.

by your rationale wouldnt mike tyson have some great bushido cuz he
went into a sporting tournament and bit some guy? he took it to the
next level right!?! he took it from boxing to a nasty ass asnything
goes fight. woo hoo bushido!
:)

> > 2. he robs you of your chi, that cant be good. thats kinda your
> life > force.
>
> Where does this come from? The anime series? I'm not familiar

with

> this aspect of Akuma.

not from the series, its something i always heard about him from the
game. he keeps the chi of fallen opponents in his beads.

>
> > 3. aside from the normal ppl he kills, he started his storyline

by

> > murdering his master and brother.
>
> But, in honorable combat. And its not like he's like Bison,

killing

> innocents and such.
>

where is this from? the anime series?:)
i always heard goutetsu told him "dont do that move" so he killed him
for standing in his way, and for being what akuma perceived as weak.
so there we have anormal student master relationship, and all the
sudden akuma starts only caring about power, not any values goutetsu
wants to teach him, and he nuts up and kills him one day.

wheres the honor you percieve in that?
isnt that what the kids at columbine did?
everything was fine, then one day they decided to care only about
what THEY wanted and to and disregard the lives of others in the
process, so the killed fellow students and teachers, like akuma
killed gouken and goutetsu.

where have you ever seen akuma portrayed as anything but pure evil?

> > 4. he seeks now to corrupt an honerable fighter like ryu.
>
> To me (this may just be justification since I really like the Akuma
> character concept)

what does you likeing him have to do with if hes honerable or not?
at all....
I like playing vega, im not going to try to say hes honerable just
cuz i like him?!?!

>I'm thinking he's trying to get Ryu to turn his
> back on this Street Fighting 'sport' (knockouts? bah) and embrace
> Shotokan as a 'fighting' (to the death) art. If its not to the
> death, its only a sport.

actually i think its been said on more than one occasion that hes
trying to get ryu to tap his "true power", the same power that akuma
himself has tapped, and is called "evil intent"

>
>
> > 5. while he does seem to have a code he goes by, i dont think it

is

> > the code of honor. I think he's mainly concerned with growing in
> > power by fighting worthy opponents. because he sees fighting
> weaker > ppl as a waste of his time since he is only concerned with
> amassing > power is not necessarily 'good'
>
> ...which is based on the 'stealing chi' concept. Not familiar with
> it at all, though in my case I don't know if it would change my
> concept of him. He's just too darn cool to not have Honor.

actually no, this part isnt based on stealing chi at all. I just
meant that you cannot grow stronger, or learn anything new, by
fighting weaklings. thats why he fights world warriors, because they
challenge him and allow him to become more powerfull by just
becomiung a better fighter.

this is not neccesarily bad, its the same thing ryu does, but its not
good either. it doest make him honerable cuz he does it, because his
reasons for not killing innocent schmucks is simply its a waste of
time. he cant grow in power by doing it.

>
> > If you can convince me otherwise though i'd love to hear it.
>
> Well, I'm just giving you my take on it. Overall, the conversions
> are going to be your creations... a Street Fighting gestalt. ;o

In

> view of that, they would fit better together holistically with you
> running the show.
>
>
> For me, I love Sagat and Akuma both. So, Sagat is the Alpha 3

Sagat

> (as in, has Honor, rejects Shadoloo and Bison, but isn't anyone's
> friend), and Akuma is a supreme badass, a warrior's warrior (high
> Honor), even though he's evil. Bison has no honor because he kills
> innocent people, and Balrog has no honor because he's greedy and is
> basically a thug with little redeeming qualities. But Sagat and
> Akuma? Well, they're too close to my heart to not have Honor.

again, what does you liking them have to do with if they are
honerable or not?
does that mean vampires too are "good" because goths like them?

> In
> Akuma's case specifically, I don't have him stealing any Chi, so

he's

> got to have Honor to fight the way he does.

well if you ask me, the whole way you regain chi with honor is bunk
to me. anything that is so flawed you have to change the story so
much as adding a radioactive meteor, has got to be bunk:)

> ;)
>
> Don't worry though. Geese and Rugal plug the gaps these two would
> otherwise leave behind.
>
> As you can see, for me it works -- but thats because holisitcally,
> I've created a campaign wherein the thematic gaps caused by the
> changes in these characters are filled with other characters, so it
> works out fine.
>
>
> Just something to consider.

i dont mean to judge ppl solely on appearance, its awefull shallow,
but dont you ever wonder why akuma is portrayed as having glowing red
eyes, and a mouthfull of razor sharp fangs? why has he got a move
that references a "raging demon" and all the talk about "evil intent"?

do you really not think akuma is evil or are you just playing?

>i only use official capcom pics. Ill probably make up a page about
>the rules of my little contest.

ok, cool. I was thinking maybe of splicing a bunch of Capcom pics together
to make Juli & Juni(using cammy pics & stuff). I'm pretty good with
altering pictures.

>thats great news!
>I know next to nothing about JavaScript. I bought a book on it and
>pretty much just learned how to do what i needed to do.
>so that script is like ALL i know about it.
>
>If your friend makes it better thats great, I would really like if it
>were an exe, that way you wouldnt have to worry about browser
>compatibility.

Well, he has a degree in Computer Science, so I figure if he gets time, He
should do a pretty good job of it.

DarkLight

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

mean liar,
here are some facts i just gathered togetehr about akuma being evil.
they are all official in so far as they come directly from capcom
sources.

'Evil Intent' refernce From Alpha:
"You possess the same power as I. When the 'Evil Intent' awakens
within you, then you will know. All these past battles will seem like
child's play."

references of 'evil intent' and 'murder' from Alpha 3:
"This lone warrior is a wanderer, shrouded with "evil intent"... He
searches for challengers with enough potential to kill. "

not a 'good' thing, from Alpha 3:
"Akuma: Face me now.... Witness the death of your soul!"

murder and evil refernces from SF3 Second impact, and SF EX:
"It is his dream to be stronger than anyone else. Akuma chooses his
own master, Goutetsu to test this move on. During there fight, Akuma
sees the chance. He feels like all the cells in his body will
explode. After a second, he watches his dead master's body spray
blood. Akuma's evil fate was set. It is his destiny and there is no
turning back."

And heres his ending from SF3 Third strike, where he KILLS INNOCENT
PPL, as opposed to ppl who choose to fight him:
"A deep sea exploration team is looking around on the ocean. Nothing
interesting is happening until they notice a man with glowing eyes
standing on the bow of a sunken ship. They are surprised, because no
one could survive at this depth. Their panicy report reaches their
mother ship, a big ocean liner, just as they are destroyed. Suddenly,
their huge ocean liner is ripped in half by this man as he skyrockets
out of the water, screaming the name of his new technique.
Akuma: Muuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu! Tenshou Kareki Jin!"


These are some of the reason i think akuma just might possibly be
evil.
Matt

if i cannot get a legit picture of juni and juli no matter how hard i
try, I would DEFINATELY be interested in taking you up on this after
i give up:)

--- In streetfighter@y..., "Dennis Bryant" <gvwinterdawn@h...> wrote:
> ok, cool. I was thinking maybe of splicing a bunch of Capcom pics
together
> to make Juli & Juni(using cammy pics & stuff). I'm pretty good
with
> altering pictures.

>ok, im going to stop arguing with you on this because its pointless
>and you want to be rude about it and imply that anyone who disagrees
>just isnt as observant to details as you.

Dude, you totally got the wrong end of the stick. I wasn't being rude, & I
sure as hell wasn't saying that other people wern't as observant. I just
said there were subtle differances & you suddenly said that I was claiming
that anime was the most diverse thing on earth. Damn, I make one statement
that I think all anime isn't identicle & you start shooting me down for
things I didn't even say. My first post was pretty much "maybe I'm getting
too hung up on subtleties, but most anime has differances from others", &
you respond with "No, your wrong, in general anime is the
same"(paraphrased). You were the one being rude & I find it very insulting
to slam someone when you clearly didn't even take the time to read what I
was saying. It's akin to someone saying 'I think that most cars feel a bit
different to drive' & haveing a scathing responce of 'no, they all drive the
same 'cause they all have an accelerator & a steering wheel'. & finally, it
was you who started arguing, all I did was post an observation.

DarkLight

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

I think the problem here is that one person is seeing honor=good, & the
other is seeing honor=honor. From the strictest sence, honor has nothing to
do with good or evil. Someone can be wholey evil & still fight an honerable
fight, whole someone can be good & fight dishonerably.

DarkLight

_________________________________________________________________
Join the world�s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com

--- In streetfighter@y..., "Dennis Bryant" <gvwinterdawn@h...> wrote:

> Dude, you totally got the wrong end of the stick. I wasn't being

rude,

well since this is the second time we both think the other is being
rude, maybe we should just steer clear of each other and not argue
like i suggested.

> Damn, I make one statement
> that I think all anime isn't identicle

That was not your statement. no one was saying it was identical,
they said it was similar. you responded to this by saying that it wa
snot similar.

>My first post was pretty much "maybe I'm getting
> too hung up on subtleties, but most anime has differances from

others",


someone said
">Because anime is very formulaic. A large portion of anime artists

>copy other successful anime artists. That's why all anime looks
>the same, and the variation of plots in anime is a mere fraction
>to other forms of cinema."

and you replied:
" most Anime looks
pretty different to me. I don't think that Ninja Scroll looks
anything
like Street Fighter, & Card Captor Sakura looks very little like Neon
Genesis. & I've found the variation in plots are about as diverse as
you
can get. "

so you didnt say "it has differences" you said it was wildly
different, and nothing like each other..

>It's akin to someone saying 'I think that most cars feel a bit
> different to drive' & haveing a scathing responce of 'no, they all

drive the

> same 'cause they all have an accelerator & a steering wheel'.

no its not.
becaus eyou didnt say anime was "a bit different" and i didnt say
they were all the same.

you said they were wildly and totally different, not at all the same.
I said they had similarities.

> & finally, it
> was you who started arguing, all I did was post an observation.
>

first off, I "started it".
does that work when you get in slap fights on the playground?

secondly, someone ELSE posted some facts about anime in response to
my question about nubians. you replied to them with a directly
opposite viewpoint. that is when the argument was started.
something was said originally was a statement.
when you posted the opposite idea, you argued that statement.

but that doesnt really matter since there is nothing wrong with
arguing so long as its kept friendly.
neither of us think the other is capable of that, so we should
probably just start ignoring each other.

I have serious problems with the way you come off sometimes and I
call you on it.

you dont see anything wrong with what you said, so you think im just
attacking you for no reason.

we do not mix.

Matt
p.s. i have no problem whatsoever with any of your oppinions, cuz
they are just that. I get into it with you because the way you convey
them sometimes seems very cocky and pompous to me.

p.p.s. next time i think your being an asshole i will talk to you
about it offlist. next time you think i am, do the same.

to clarify my feelings on Akuma:
1. i dont think akuma is honorable OR good.
2. I am using the "Streetfighter the Storytelling Game" definition of
the word Honor when I talk about Akuma.
"Honor represents your character's morals both in and out of the
ring."
If this game system called "honor" refers to your morals, than it is
a representation of how good/bad you are as well.


and while yes, a good person can fight dishonorably, and a bad person
can fight honorably, that example limits honor to a description of
your actions in the ring.

if you apply the word honor to that persons entire life, and not just
in the ring, then someone who lived dishonorably would not be good.
and someone who lived honorably pretty much would be. (depending on
your definition)

dishonorable things to do outside the ring would include lying,
killing, cheating, betraying etc. all of which would make you "bad"

if honor and good/bad are truly not related than someone could do
EVERYTHING dishonorable, be dishonorable through and through, with
everything he does, and still be good.

That would not be possible if a person did the things OUTSIDE of the
ring that are held to be dishonorable (lying, killing, cheating,
betraying etc).

Matt

>
>
> Nubians are from Nubia, an area of Africa on the Eastern Coast,
> below Egypt. Nubia was a powerful empire until the Roman Empire
> crushed and conquered it. It's people have the stereotype of
> being very large dark skinned blacks.
>
>

Not that it has anything to do with the physical stereotypes you're
talking of, but the african nation the romans conquered was
Numidia, whose territory is equivalent to modern Algeria.

The numidians had the bad luck of having too much ambition when
on the wrong side of a war (they were old allies of the
Carthaginians, great rivals of the Roman Republic [not Empire]).
The nubians never were conquered by the romans.

The only real confrontation they ever had was when a Kushite
(Nubian was the roman term for Kush) queen resolved to kick some
roman ass, invading Egypt, then a roman province. After a year of
conflict, a treaty was done to establish a definite frontier between
Kush and Egypt. Those events happened during Augustus rule as
Emperor.

Just felt like talking of it.

Marcel

Why not make the Raging demon Hit trice??? There are three signs
slamming into the White flash when he executes it. Each could be a Chi
attack ^_^


Just my two cents ..


-----ROnin-----

--- In streetfighter@y..., Jason Obeston <callanme@y...> wrote:
> I also think except for akumas raging demon he's well
> done. I haven't checked out Alex yet but I shall.
>
>
>
> --- necro6hit <ringthief@c...> wrote:
> > Well you think Adon is "extremely well done" but
> > Akumas Raging Demon
> > is weak.
> >
> > Whats your oppinion on Alex?
> >
> > I get very little feedback.
> >
> > Matt
> >
> > --- In streetfighter@y..., Jason Obeston
> > <callanme@y...> wrote:
> > > Love the way you did the
> > > supplement and character sheet. They look like
> > the
> > > real deal and Adon is extremley well done.
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
> http://greetings.yahoo.com/

Hmmm... THis msg. came WAAAAYYY!!!! to late...

*sigh*

$@&%#% Yahoo.


-----Ronin-----

--- In streetfighter@y..., "galin_ra" <randerssen@h...> wrote:
> Why not make the Raging demon Hit trice??? There are three signs
> slamming into the White flash when he executes it. Each could be a Chi
> attack ^_^
>
>
> Just my two cents ..
>
>
> -----ROnin-----
>
>
> --- In streetfighter@y..., Jason Obeston <callanme@y...> wrote:
> > I also think except for akumas raging demon he's well
> > done. I haven't checked out Alex yet but I shall.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- necro6hit <ringthief@c...> wrote:
> > > Well you think Adon is "extremely well done" but
> > > Akumas Raging Demon
> > > is weak.
> > >
> > > Whats your oppinion on Alex?
> > >
> > > I get very little feedback.
> > >
> > > Matt
> > >
> > > --- In streetfighter@y..., Jason Obeston
> > > <callanme@y...> wrote:
> > > > Love the way you did the
> > > > supplement and character sheet. They look like
> > > the
> > > > real deal and Adon is extremley well done.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
> > http://greetings.yahoo.com/

----- Original Message -----

From: necro6hit

To: streetfighter@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 12:53 AM

Subject: [streetfighter] Re: "Akuma Update"

to clarify my feelings on Akuma:
1. i dont think akuma is honorable OR good.
2. I am using the "Streetfighter the Storytelling Game" definition of
the word Honor when I talk about Akuma.
"Honor represents your character's morals both in and out of the
ring."
If this game system called "honor" refers to your morals, than it is
a representation of how good/bad you are as well.


and while yes, a good person can fight dishonorably, and a bad person
can fight honorably, that example limits honor to a description of
your actions in the ring.

if you apply the word honor to that persons entire life, and not just
in the ring, then someone who lived dishonorably would not be good. 
and someone who lived honorably pretty much would be. (depending on
your definition)

dishonorable things to do outside the ring would include lying,
killing, cheating, betraying etc. all of which would make you "bad"

if honor and good/bad are truly not related than someone could do
EVERYTHING dishonorable, be dishonorable through and through, with
everything he does, and still be good.

That would not be possible if a person did the things OUTSIDE of the
ring that are held to be dishonorable (lying, killing, cheating,
betraying etc).

Matt



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Not that I'm one to get involved when its not my place, but next time you
say you're not going to argue with someone about something, don't argue!
thats all this was... you arguing with him about what was/was not said.

>--- In streetfighter@y..., "Dennis Bryant" <gvwinterdawn@h...> wrote:
> > Dude, you totally got the wrong end of the stick. I wasn't being
>rude,
>
>well since this is the second time we both think the other is being
>rude, maybe we should just steer clear of each other and not argue
>like i suggested.
>
>
> > Damn, I make one statement
> > that I think all anime isn't identicle
>
>That was not your statement. no one was saying it was identical,
>they said it was similar. you responded to this by saying that it wa
>snot similar.
>
>
> >My first post was pretty much "maybe I'm getting
> > too hung up on subtleties, but most anime has differances from
>others",
>
>
>someone said
>">Because anime is very formulaic. A large portion of anime artists
> >copy other successful anime artists. That's why all anime looks
> >the same, and the variation of plots in anime is a mere fraction
> >to other forms of cinema."
>
>and you replied:
>" most Anime looks
>pretty different to me. I don't think that Ninja Scroll looks
>anything
>like Street Fighter, & Card Captor Sakura looks very little like Neon
>Genesis. & I've found the variation in plots are about as diverse as
>you
>can get. "
>
>so you didnt say "it has differences" you said it was wildly
>different, and nothing like each other..
>
>
> >It's akin to someone saying 'I think that most cars feel a bit
> > different to drive' & haveing a scathing responce of 'no, they all
>drive the
> > same 'cause they all have an accelerator & a steering wheel'.
>
>
>no its not.
>becaus eyou didnt say anime was "a bit different" and i didnt say
>they were all the same.
>
>you said they were wildly and totally different, not at all the same.
>I said they had similarities.
>
>
> > & finally, it
> > was you who started arguing, all I did was post an observation.
> >
>
>
>first off, I "started it".
>does that work when you get in slap fights on the playground?
>
>secondly, someone ELSE posted some facts about anime in response to
>my question about nubians. you replied to them with a directly
>opposite viewpoint. that is when the argument was started.
>something was said originally was a statement.
>when you posted the opposite idea, you argued that statement.
>
>but that doesnt really matter since there is nothing wrong with
>arguing so long as its kept friendly.
>neither of us think the other is capable of that, so we should
>probably just start ignoring each other.
>
>I have serious problems with the way you come off sometimes and I
>call you on it.
>
>you dont see anything wrong with what you said, so you think im just
>attacking you for no reason.
>
>we do not mix.
>
>Matt
>p.s. i have no problem whatsoever with any of your oppinions, cuz
>they are just that. I get into it with you because the way you convey
>them sometimes seems very cocky and pompous to me.
>
>p.p.s. next time i think your being an asshole i will talk to you
>about it offlist. next time you think i am, do the same.
>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Luck? Its just a roll of the dice...
Jynx


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

--- In streetfighter@y..., "necro6hit" <ringthief@c...> wrote:

> --- In streetfighter@y..., "mean_liar" <mean_liar@h...> wrote:
> > > 1. he kills ppl regularly, everyone he fights from what i can
> tell,
> > > he uncovered shotokans "killing arts"
> >
> > Yeah, but to me thats just hardcore Bushido. A fight is to the
> > death, always.
> >
>
>
> so if i decided to fight you and kill you i would be a good guy?
> is that what your parents would think when they burried you? "Wow,
> matt has great bushido! he just nutted up and killed someone!"
>

...

> by your rationale wouldnt mike tyson have some great bushido cuz he
> went into a sporting tournament and bit some guy? he took it to

the > next level right!?! he took it from boxing to a nasty ass
asnything > goes fight. woo hoo bushido!

> :)

Right around here you usually start to bitch about condescension and
shoot off a long rambling flame. I will not. :O

Regardless, there's still a difference between murder and death in
honorable combat. The Hagakure is full of honorable death and
killing for the most trivial things.

> > > 3. aside from the normal ppl he kills, he started his storyline
> by > > > murdering his master and brother.

> > But, in honorable combat.

> i always heard goutetsu told him "dont do that move" so he killed

him > for standing in his way, and for being what akuma perceived as
weak.> so there we have anormal student master relationship, and all
the > sudden akuma starts only caring about power, not any values
goutetsu > wants to teach him, and he nuts up and kills him one day.

Well, my response would be that a person that fancies himself a
warrior (in the truest sense of the word) should be prepared to
defend himself. Speaking from the perspective of an insanely
honorable Japanese fellow, perhaps only the strong should be the ones
to carry on the Shotokan tradition?

And if Goutetsu lost, there's a good chance he WAS weak... at least
relative to Akuma (probably the only person to think Goutetsu was
weak).

> wheres the honor you percieve in that?
> isnt that what the kids at columbine did?

No, they murdered innocents. Its not like they went up the local
sheriff, army badass, or neighborhood gunsel and dueled him in the
street, they shot innocent people in the back.

> where have you ever seen akuma portrayed as anything but pure evil?

Nowhere. But evil is not necessarily 'without honor'. Evil can have
more depth than that.

> > > 4. he seeks now to corrupt an honerable fighter like ryu.
> >
> > To me (this may just be justification since I really like the

Akuma > > character concept)

>
> what does you likeing him have to do with if hes honerable or not?
> at all....
> I like playing vega, im not going to try to say hes honerable just
> cuz i like him?!?!

Vega/Balrog doesn't have Honor. That's an easy call. But the idea
of an honorable evil villian is much more appealing to me than just
another honorless badass in Street Fighter. Aren't there enough of
them already?

> >I'm thinking he's trying to get Ryu to turn his
> > back on this Street Fighting 'sport' (knockouts? bah) and

embrace

> > Shotokan as a 'fighting' (to the death) art. If its not to the
> > death, its only a sport.
>
> actually i think its been said on more than one occasion that hes
> trying to get ryu to tap his "true power", the same power that

akuma

> himself has tapped, and is called "evil intent"

Exactly. To turn Ryu from a sportsman into a 'true' warrior. Evil
yes, but Honor is not exclusive of evil.

> do you really not think akuma is evil or are you just playing?

I think that it is possible to be evil and have Honor. Apparently,
you do not. I'm beginning to think that might be the main difference
in this conversation.

>One of the reasons why Gouken has the kanji "Mu" on his back. It's

really not about how strong the person is but how tuned and focused
they are with their mind and soul. "

For those keeping score at home, Akuma (USA) has the kanji "Ten" on
his back, meaning 'Heaven'; Gouki (Japan) wears "Mu".

I'm not certain of the kanji in Capcom vs SNK 2. Evil Ryu, God
Rugal, Gouki, and Shin Gouki all have different kanji displayed after
doing their Shun Goku Satsu to kill their opponent, though I have the
Japanese version.

Thanks for the article!

--- In streetfighter@y..., "mean_liar" <mean_liar@h...> wrote:

> Right around here you usually start to bitch about condescension

and

> shoot off a long rambling flame. I will not. :O

sorry,
I suck.

> Regardless, there's still a difference between murder and death in
> honorable combat. The Hagakure is full of honorable death and
> killing for the most trivial things.
> > isnt that what the kids at columbine did?
>
> No, they murdered innocents.

at the end of SF3: third Strike, he kills a boat load of ppl for
looking at him funny.

> I think that it is possible to be evil and have Honor. Apparently,
> you do not. I'm beginning to think that might be the main

difference

> in this conversation.

well maybe i should re think my translation of akuma in light of
popular oppinion.

but i WAS translating it for the goody goody rpg where you get docked
honor for killing anyone.

Matt

this is great info on akuma. Thanks.
It will undoubtedly be very usefull when i re-do akuma, or when
anyone else makes a sheet for him.

M

--- In streetfighter@y..., "Andy Johnston" <dlatrex@h...> wrote:
> Hey guys. Neat debate going on about the principles of Akuma. As
always, each GM is entitled to make the SF world what he/she would
like it to be.
>
> I thought I'd share with you these notes on the "Master of the
Fist." since everyone like to swear 'In The Name of CAPCOM!'. =)
> These are NOT official from Capcom of USA. These are OFFICAL notes
from Capcom of Japan (I had to go the round about way of getting it
tho...). Use them as you see fit.
>
> "What happens during the shungokusatsu is that they go to hell.
The demons in hell will attack the person even if they're sin free or
not. They're demons, they'll go at anything. But with evil
characters, their past sins will also haunt on top of the demons
attacking them for that split second. Gen survives this because he
empties his spirit, heart and mind. "Onore wo mu ni suru". "Mu" means
emptiness, nothingness. One of the reasons why Gouken has the
kanji "Mu" on his back. It's really not about how strong the person
is but how tuned and focused they are with their mind and soul. "
>
> "Evil Intent is a mistranslation. It's supposed to be Killing
Intent. There's a significant difference regarding the symbolicry of
Akuma and Ryu's relationship if you know this. "
>
> "Akuma doesn't become Shin Akuma. Akuma IS Shin Akuma, except that
he holds back punches and uses only a small percent of his power. He
does this because he doesn't want to unnecessarily kill anyone who he
feels aren't out to kill him in the first place."
>
> "The Kanji letter "Ki" in Gouki`s name doesn't actually
mean "ghost" or "demon". it means "Oni". Oni in Japanese is the
imaginary monster that looks like a horned human. In Japan it is
also believed that human or human's spirit can turn to Oni when
they're extremely obsessed with hatred, anger or vengeance"
>
> "Akuma may be evil by our moral standards (he killed his teacher
and brother), but he is not evil by his own ethical code. His code
is the harsh code of the absolute warrior. He had no qualms killing
his teacher and brother because he killed them in fair one-on-one
combat. It didn't matter who they were; the field of battle does not
distinguish between friend or foe. And he only fights and kills
those who call themselves warriors and trains in fighting; he doesn't
go around killing defenseless normal people. "
>
> I'm sure everyone will agree on all this info! (lol.) Let the
arguing begin!
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: necro6hit
> To: streetfighter@y...
> Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 12:53 AM
> Subject: [streetfighter] Re: "Akuma Update"
>
>
> to clarify my feelings on Akuma:
> 1. i dont think akuma is honorable OR good.
> 2. I am using the "Streetfighter the Storytelling Game"
definition of
> the word Honor when I talk about Akuma.
> "Honor represents your character's morals both in and out of the
> ring."
> If this game system called "honor" refers to your morals, than it
is
> a representation of how good/bad you are as well.
>
>
> and while yes, a good person can fight dishonorably, and a bad
person
> can fight honorably, that example limits honor to a description
of
> your actions in the ring.
>
> if you apply the word honor to that persons entire life, and not
just
> in the ring, then someone who lived dishonorably would not be
good.
> and someone who lived honorably pretty much would be. (depending
on
> your definition)
>
> dishonorable things to do outside the ring would include lying,
> killing, cheating, betraying etc. all of which would make
you "bad"
>
> if honor and good/bad are truly not related than someone could do
> EVERYTHING dishonorable, be dishonorable through and through,
with
> everything he does, and still be good.
>
> That would not be possible if a person did the things OUTSIDE of
the
> ring that are held to be dishonorable (lying, killing, cheating,
> betraying etc).
>
> Matt
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.

I am a horrible person.

--- In streetfighter@y..., "Bill Stagge" <jynxboy316@h...> wrote:
> Not that I'm one to get involved when its not my place, but next
time you
> say you're not going to argue with someone about something, don't
argue!
> thats all this was... you arguing with him about what was/was not
said.
>

I will be doing Allen, Area, and Birdie next (since im doing them in
alphabetical order) on my page.
Does anyone have any usefull information for these guys?

I just got a metric butt-ton of both facts and oppinions about Akuma,
but it was all AFTER I was done. So now I have to go back.

So if anyone has mad info on these three peeps, gimme the 411 now
pls..

word,
M

i would like to translate this into game terms as closely as possible:

"What happens during the shungokusatsu is that they go to hell. The
demons in hell will attack the person even if they're sin free or
not. They're demons, they'll go at anything. But with evil
characters, their past sins will also haunt on top of the demons
attacking them for that split second. Gen survives this because he
empties his spirit, heart and mind. "Onore wo mu ni suru". "Mu" means
emptiness, nothingness. One of the reasons why Gouken has the
kanji "Mu" on his back. It's really not about how strong the person
is but how tuned and focused they are with their mind and soul. "

this is extremely problematic. any ideas?

if weve already established that evil and dishonorable are two
different things. how do i make the raging demon do more damage to
ppl based on "past sins" if im NOT to use honor as a reflection of
good/evil.

also, how does gen survive this in game terms?
Zen No Mind giving a soak bonus springs to mind, but that really
doesnt cover it. he is supposed to empty his mind, spirit and heart
(not jes his mind)....

also, do you guys think the raging demon should do any more damage
based on the honor and/or unique background of the weilder?

actually since its hell damaging you, the damage shouldnt even have
anything to do withthe weilder should it?

I understand if no one replies to this with their oppinions since i
am an asshole..

Matt

>I will be doing Allen, Area, and Birdie next (since im doing them in
>alphabetical order) on my page.
>Does anyone have any usefull information for these guys?

Well, Birde was a white english street thug who decided to put on heaps of
muscle & become black :) :)

DarkLight

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

> >One of the reasons why Gouken has the kanji "Mu" on his back. It's
>really not about how strong the person is but how tuned and focused
>they are with their mind and soul. "
>
>For those keeping score at home, Akuma (USA) has the kanji "Ten" on
>his back, meaning 'Heaven'; Gouki (Japan) wears "Mu".

Actually, in all the Japanese games Gouki has just the same symbol on his
back as in the American versions. I think this is actually in referance to
Gouken, Ryu & Ken's teacher. As a side note, in the origional Street
Fighter 2 comics Ryu donns a Gi with the symbol 'mu'(or Kara, as in Karate)
on the back for his fight with Vega/Bison.

DarkLight

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

>i would like to translate this into game terms as closely as possible:
>
>"What happens during the shungokusatsu is that they go to hell. The
>demons in hell will attack the person even if they're sin free or
>not. They're demons, they'll go at anything. But with evil
>characters, their past sins will also haunt on top of the demons
>attacking them for that split second. Gen survives this because he
>empties his spirit, heart and mind. "Onore wo mu ni suru". "Mu" means
>emptiness, nothingness. One of the reasons why Gouken has the
>kanji "Mu" on his back. It's really not about how strong the person
>is but how tuned and focused they are with their mind and soul. "
>
>this is extremely problematic. any ideas?

Hmmmm, it is problematic indeed. Maybe it needs to be a manuver with move
+2, speed, I don't know maybe +0, & Damage special:just like death is
something left up to the storyteller, the damage from this manuver is based
on what the storyteller deems fit for that individual, no rolling involved.

Darklight

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

    Ryu didn't see Gouken battle his brother Akuma. Gouken's daughter saw it, but she disappeared after that.  Gouken's daughter has no official name.  There are two official arts of her, though they differ greatly from each other so it's hard to tell which one's supposed to be correct.  Ken also arrived near the end of the battle and was able to witness it.  The fact that Gouken had a daughter seems to have been forgotten by Capcom and thus will probably never resurface (the official arts of her come from ooooooold official sources and you can't find the fact that Gouken has a daughter except in really old sources, too.  There are two official arts of her too, both of which look completely different from each other).

The user is in danger during the Shun Goku Satsu, too, if he isn't prepared.  Both the user and the target go to hell.  Canonwise, Ryu and Sakura have never done the Shun Goku Satsu.

Gouken had the character "Mu" which means "nothing", "naught" on his back.  Akuma has the character for "Heaven" on his back, but this can also be interpreted as "Beyond human" which is most likely the correct interpretation.  According to some Japanese myths, the bearer of this symbol is said to be immortal.

 Akuma's island is named Gokuentou.  It hasn't been stated whether or not his cave stage in SFA3 is on Gokuentou or if Akuma destroyed Gokuentou at the end of SFA2.

"

The only thing else it really makes note of, is the fact that all our 'karate-ists' don't really use Shotokan (as any of our martial-art's expert's will tell you.)  But since Ansatsuken would conflict terribly with white-wolf (and probably be hard to translate.) you guys can reasearch that by yourselves. 

Even though the story cannon- is hard to consolidate, alot of the background notes at: http://www.tekken.nu/fightermania/sf/sfastory.htm seem pretty accurate. Happy hunting guys.

 

 

 

   ----- Original Message -----

From: necro6hit

To: streetfighter@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 2:00 PM

Subject: [streetfighter] Re: THE AKUMA!!!!

this is great info on akuma. Thanks.
It will undoubtedly be very usefull when i re-do akuma, or when
anyone else makes a sheet for him.

M

--- In streetfighter@y..., "Andy Johnston" <dlatrex@h...> wrote:
> Hey guys. Neat debate going on about the principles of Akuma. As
always, each GM is entitled to make the SF world what he/she would
like it to be.
>
> I thought I'd share with you these notes on the "Master of the
Fist." since everyone like to swear 'In The Name of CAPCOM!'.  =)
> These are NOT official from Capcom of USA. These are OFFICAL notes
from Capcom of Japan (I had to go the round about way of getting it
tho...). Use them as you see fit.
>
> "What happens during the shungokusatsu is that they go to hell. 
The demons in hell will attack the person even if they're sin free or
not. They're demons, they'll go at anything. But with evil
characters, their past sins will also haunt on top of the demons
attacking them for that split second. Gen survives this because he
empties his spirit, heart and mind. "Onore wo mu ni suru". "Mu" means
emptiness, nothingness. One of the reasons why Gouken has the
kanji "Mu" on his back. It's really not about how strong the person
is but how tuned and focused they are with their mind and soul. "
>
> "Evil Intent is a mistranslation.  It's supposed to be Killing
Intent.  There's a significant difference regarding the symbolicry of
Akuma and Ryu's relationship if you know this. "
>
> "Akuma doesn't become Shin Akuma. Akuma IS Shin Akuma, except that
he holds back punches and uses only a small percent of his power.  He
does this because he doesn't want to unnecessarily kill anyone who he
feels aren't out to kill him in the first place."
>
> "The Kanji letter "Ki" in Gouki`s name doesn't actually
mean "ghost" or "demon". it means "Oni".  Oni in Japanese is the
imaginary monster that looks like a horned human.  In Japan it is
also believed that human or human's spirit can turn to Oni when
they're extremely obsessed with hatred, anger or vengeance"
>
> "Akuma may be evil by our moral standards (he killed his teacher
and brother), but he is not evil by his own ethical code.  His code
is the harsh code of the absolute warrior.  He had no qualms killing
his teacher and brother because he killed them in fair one-on-one
combat.  It didn't matter who they were; the field of battle does not
distinguish between friend or foe.  And he only fights and kills
those who call themselves warriors and trains in fighting; he doesn't
go around killing defenseless normal people. "
>
> I'm sure everyone will agree on all this info! (lol.)   Let the
arguing begin!
>
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: necro6hit
>   To: streetfighter@y...
>   Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 12:53 AM
>   Subject: [streetfighter] Re: "Akuma Update"
>
>
>   to clarify my feelings on Akuma:
>   1. i dont think akuma is honorable OR good.
>   2. I am using the "Streetfighter the Storytelling Game"
definition of
>   the word Honor when I talk about Akuma.
>   "Honor represents your character's morals both in and out of the
>   ring."
>   If this game system called "honor" refers to your morals, than it
is
>   a representation of how good/bad you are as well.
>
>
>   and while yes, a good person can fight dishonorably, and a bad
person
>   can fight honorably, that example limits honor to a description
of
>   your actions in the ring.
>
>   if you apply the word honor to that persons entire life, and not
just
>   in the ring, then someone who lived dishonorably would not be
good. 
>   and someone who lived honorably pretty much would be. (depending
on
>   your definition)
>
>   dishonorable things to do outside the ring would include lying,
>   killing, cheating, betraying etc. all of which would make
you "bad"
>
>   if honor and good/bad are truly not related than someone could do
>   EVERYTHING dishonorable, be dishonorable through and through,
with
>   everything he does, and still be good.
>
>   That would not be possible if a person did the things OUTSIDE of
the
>   ring that are held to be dishonorable (lying, killing, cheating,
>   betraying etc).
>
>   Matt
>
>
>         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>       
>       
>
>   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

> "What happens during the shungokusatsu...

> this is extremely problematic. any ideas?

> if weve already established that evil and dishonorable are two
> different things. how do i make the raging demon do more damage to
> ppl based on "past sins" if im NOT to use honor as a reflection of
> good/evil.

I don't think that there can be a strictly in-game mechanic to
simulate it as presented, though the damage from the 'dragging into
hell' should be pretty easy to calculate (its only the 'damage from
past sins' that is a problem).

I would imagine a base move, with heaps of roleplaying effects added
in. I wouldn't worry too much about Gen surviving the effects, since
he's an old master type that has transcended just about everything.

He's pretty damn high on the 'cool' meter, too.

good info.
i think i will use mostly the american version of the story though
because thats how the rest of the rpg does, (well, except for the
meteor, the singing rosebush, and the mutant bull:))

Where exactly are you getting all this? I dont doubt or question any
of it, I just know if I use it someone will eventually ask me where I
got it and it would be nice to cite the origin.

Also, I remember hearing once that Akuma kept his conquered opponents
chi in the beads he wears. is there any reference to that in all
your capcom japan info? Or did I just hear it from an unreliable
source?

Matt

--- In streetfighter@y..., "Andy Johnston" <dlatrex@h...> wrote:
> I wasn't sure if you guys were gonna go for the info we did have...
here's the 1-2 more things on Akuma that I left out. nothing too big.
>
> Here...
>
> "
> Goutetsu, who invented the arts of Hado, Shoryu, Tatsumaki, and
Shungokusatsu, taught the Shun Goku Satsu (Instant Hell Murder) to
both Akuma and Gouken. Gouken, however, disliked killing and didn't
teach it to Ken or Ryu, instead teaching them a toned down version of
Ansatsuken. Capcom of USA changed the storyline and stated that
Goutetsu hid away the secrets of the Shun Goku Satsu, but that's not
true.
> Ryu didn't see Gouken battle his brother Akuma. Gouken's
daughter saw it, but she disappeared after that. Gouken's daughter
has no official name. There are two official arts of her, though
they differ greatly from each other so it's hard to tell which one's
supposed to be correct. Ken also arrived near the end of the battle
and was able to witness it. The fact that Gouken had a daughter
seems to have been forgotten by Capcom and thus will probably never
resurface (the official arts of her come from ooooooold official
sources and you can't find the fact that Gouken has a daughter except
in really old sources, too. There are two official arts of her too,
both of which look completely different from each other).
>
> The user is in danger during the Shun Goku Satsu, too, if he isn't
prepared. Both the user and the target go to hell. Canonwise, Ryu
and Sakura have never done the Shun Goku Satsu.
>
> Gouken had the character "Mu" which means "nothing", "naught" on
his back. Akuma has the character for "Heaven" on his back, but this
can also be interpreted as "Beyond human" which is most likely the
correct interpretation. According to some Japanese myths, the bearer
of this symbol is said to be immortal.
>
> Akuma's island is named Gokuentou. It hasn't been stated whether
or not his cave stage in SFA3 is on Gokuentou or if Akuma destroyed
Gokuentou at the end of SFA2.
>
> "
>
> The only thing else it really makes note of, is the fact that all
our 'karate-ists' don't really use Shotokan (as any of our martial-
art's expert's will tell you.) But since Ansatsuken would conflict
terribly with white-wolf (and probably be hard to translate.) you
guys can reasearch that by yourselves.
>
> Even though the story cannon- is hard to consolidate, alot of the
background notes at:
http://www.tekken.nu/fightermania/sf/sfastory.htm seem pretty
accurate. Happy hunting guys.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: necro6hit
> To: streetfighter@y...
> Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 2:00 PM
> Subject: [streetfighter] Re: THE AKUMA!!!!
>
>
> this is great info on akuma. Thanks.
> It will undoubtedly be very usefull when i re-do akuma, or when
> anyone else makes a sheet for him.
>
> M
>
> --- In streetfighter@y..., "Andy Johnston" <dlatrex@h...> wrote:
> > Hey guys. Neat debate going on about the principles of Akuma.
As
> always, each GM is entitled to make the SF world what he/she
would
> like it to be.
> >
> > I thought I'd share with you these notes on the "Master of the
> Fist." since everyone like to swear 'In The Name of CAPCOM!'. =)
> > These are NOT official from Capcom of USA. These are OFFICAL
notes
> from Capcom of Japan (I had to go the round about way of getting
it
> tho...). Use them as you see fit.
> >
> > "What happens during the shungokusatsu is that they go to
hell.
> The demons in hell will attack the person even if they're sin
free or
> not. They're demons, they'll go at anything. But with evil
> characters, their past sins will also haunt on top of the demons
> attacking them for that split second. Gen survives this because
he
> empties his spirit, heart and mind. "Onore wo mu ni suru". "Mu"
means
> emptiness, nothingness. One of the reasons why Gouken has the
> kanji "Mu" on his back. It's really not about how strong the
person
> is but how tuned and focused they are with their mind and soul. "
> >
> > "Evil Intent is a mistranslation. It's supposed to be Killing
> Intent. There's a significant difference regarding the
symbolicry of
> Akuma and Ryu's relationship if you know this. "
> >
> > "Akuma doesn't become Shin Akuma. Akuma IS Shin Akuma, except
that
> he holds back punches and uses only a small percent of his
power. He
> does this because he doesn't want to unnecessarily kill anyone
who he
> feels aren't out to kill him in the first place."
> >
> > "The Kanji letter "Ki" in Gouki`s name doesn't actually
> mean "ghost" or "demon". it means "Oni". Oni in Japanese is the
> imaginary monster that looks like a horned human. In Japan it is
> also believed that human or human's spirit can turn to Oni when
> they're extremely obsessed with hatred, anger or vengeance"
> >
> > "Akuma may be evil by our moral standards (he killed his
teacher
> and brother), but he is not evil by his own ethical code. His
code
> is the harsh code of the absolute warrior. He had no qualms
killing
> his teacher and brother because he killed them in fair one-on-one
> combat. It didn't matter who they were; the field of battle does
not
> distinguish between friend or foe. And he only fights and kills
> those who call themselves warriors and trains in fighting; he
doesn't
> go around killing defenseless normal people. "
> >
> > I'm sure everyone will agree on all this info! (lol.) Let the
> arguing begin!
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: necro6hit
> > To: streetfighter@y...
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 12:53 AM
> > Subject: [streetfighter] Re: "Akuma Update"
> >
> >
> > to clarify my feelings on Akuma:
> > 1. i dont think akuma is honorable OR good.
> > 2. I am using the "Streetfighter the Storytelling Game"
> definition of
> > the word Honor when I talk about Akuma.
> > "Honor represents your character's morals both in and out of
the
> > ring."
> > If this game system called "honor" refers to your morals,
than it
> is
> > a representation of how good/bad you are as well.
> >
> >
> > and while yes, a good person can fight dishonorably, and a
bad
> person
> > can fight honorably, that example limits honor to a
description
> of
> > your actions in the ring.
> >
> > if you apply the word honor to that persons entire life, and
not
> just
> > in the ring, then someone who lived dishonorably would not be
> good.
> > and someone who lived honorably pretty much would be.
(depending
> on
> > your definition)
> >
> > dishonorable things to do outside the ring would include
lying,
> > killing, cheating, betraying etc. all of which would make
> you "bad"
> >
> > if honor and good/bad are truly not related than someone
could do
> > EVERYTHING dishonorable, be dishonorable through and through,
> with
> > everything he does, and still be good.
> >
> > That would not be possible if a person did the things OUTSIDE
of
> the
> > ring that are held to be dishonorable (lying, killing,
cheating,
> > betraying etc).
> >
> > Matt
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.

> >For those keeping score at home, Akuma (USA) has the kanji "Ten" on
> >his back, meaning 'Heaven'; Gouki (Japan) wears "Mu".
>
> Actually, in all the Japanese games Gouki has just the same symbol

on his > back as in the American versions. I think this is actually
in referance to > Gouken, Ryu & Ken's teacher. As a side note, in
the origional Street > Fighter 2 comics Ryu donns a Gi with the
symbol 'mu'(or Kara, as in Karate) > on the back for his fight with
Vega/Bison.


I think its a deeper concept than 'Kara'. 'Mu' represents
nothingness, but more importantly, the Void (one more for the
scorecard: one of the Japanese five elements, a la Go Rin No Sho AKA
Book of Five Rings). It is the nothingness that unifies and defines
all things, and so it is nothingness that is the closest that an
ordinary person can get to godliness (this is the Japanese equivalent
of achieving one with the taoist Way, or more basically,
enlightenment).

The 'Ten' symbol Akuma displays is a nod to Japanese myth, which is
further made more evident by Shin Akuma in Capcom vs SNK 2 displaying
the more definite kanji meaning 'Man of Heaven'.

--- In streetfighter@y..., "mean_liar" <mean_liar@h...> wrote:

> I don't think that there can be a strictly in-game mechanic to
> simulate it as presented, though the damage from the 'dragging into
> hell' should be pretty easy to calculate (its only the 'damage from
> past sins' that is a problem).
>

I think i know how ill do it.

prolly 12 dice you cant soak from going to hell.
plus 10 more dice on the second hit for your past sins, which you can
soak with your Honor.
(since the SF:stg definition of honor is basically how good/bad you
are.)

That way the minimum is 13 dice damage (like the 13 hits in the
videogame)if you have full honor (your good) or 23 if you have no
honor (your evil)

Then I will also make up a system for having your OWN code of honor.
probably the unique background "Bushido" or something, which will
change how you get renown/replenish chi....

Matt

oh yeah, i forgot to add:
"and ill make a system so the user of the raging demon can screw up
and damage himself with it also. probably a Focus+Mysteries roll or
something as you start the move to teleport to hell. botch it and
you take damage too."

M

--- In streetfighter@y..., "necro6hit" <ringthief@c...> wrote:
> I think i know how ill do it.
>
> prolly 12 dice you cant soak from going to hell.
> plus 10 more dice on the second hit for your past sins, which you
can
> soak with your Honor.
> (since the SF:stg definition of honor is basically how good/bad you
> are.)
>
> That way the minimum is 13 dice damage (like the 13 hits in the
> videogame)if you have full honor (your good) or 23 if you have no
> honor (your evil)
>
> Then I will also make up a system for having your OWN code of
honor.
> probably the unique background "Bushido" or something, which will
> change how you get renown/replenish chi....
>
> Matt

--- necro6hit <ringthief@...> wrote:

> i would like to translate this into game terms as
> closely as possible:
>
> "What happens during the shungokusatsu is that they
> go to hell. The demons in hell will attack the

person even if they're sin free or not. They're
demons, they'll go at anything. But with evil

> characters, their past sins will also haunt on top
> of the demons attacking them for that split second.

Gen survives this because he empties his spirit,
heart and mind. "Onore wo mu ni suru". "Mu" means

> emptiness, nothingness. One of the reasons why
> Gouken has the kanji "Mu" on his back. It's really

not about how strong the person is but how tuned and
focused they are with their mind and soul. "

>
> this is extremely problematic. any ideas?

This manauver is basicly unavailable to pc's anyway
right? So have it do ungodly damage (neighborhood of
20-30 dice with no blocking) and then add extra damage
just based on what you know about the recieving
person's past sins (Bison is so screwed) Um lets see
maybe allow focus to also help soak damage since that
would be how well you could tune mind and soul. Also
if they've survived it once they're probally better
able to withstand it later (they've learned survival
techniques) If you assume Akuma also visits hell when
he performs the movehave it do (majorly reduced)
damage to akuma if he pulls it twice in a roll (gotta
be pretty taxing to visit hell twice)

> I understand if no one replies to this with their
> oppinions since i
> am an asshole..

Stronly opionated and running on a lack of sleep does
not make one an asshole.


__________________________________________________
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Alright In SF alpha 2 akumas rageing demon dose
exactly the same damage as 15 jab punches.

Cliff

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Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the streetfighter
group.

File : /Matt's/sfbooks1.jpg
Uploaded by : necro6hit <ringthief@...>
Description : So you all know I'm serious about giving away books. Contest info will be posted on my site soon.

You can access this file at the URL

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To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit

http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

necro6hit <ringthief@...>

--- In streetfighter@y..., Jason Obeston <callanme@y...> wrote:

> This manauver is basicly unavailable to pc's anyway
> right? So have it do ungodly damage (neighborhood of
> 20-30 dice with no blocking) and then add extra damage
> just based on what you know about the recieving
> person's past sins (Bison is so screwed)

thanks, but im too much of a perfectionist to post a system that
loose for the raging demon. I know if I was a player and my dm did a
move on me where he just go to "make up" damage, I would be pissed as
hell:)

> Stronly opionated and running on a lack of sleep does
> not make one an asshole.

thanks,
but i think it actually might:)

Hey all. THought I would hit this list first before considering other
online selling methods.

I have all nine Street Fighter 2 V VHS tapes that I'm looking to sell.
They're not mint, but they are in good condition.

Took me a long time to come up with them all, but now I've got the DVDs.
Email me personally if you're interested and we'll talk further.

___________________________________________________
Fred Chagnon "Only in RPGs does fighting
seagull@... make you a better person."
seagull@... - Peter Olafson

--- necro6hit <ringthief@...> wrote:

> --- In streetfighter@y..., Jason Obeston
> <callanme@y...> wrote:
> > This manauver is basicly unavailable to pc's
> anyway
> > right? So have it do ungodly damage (neighborhood
> of
> > 20-30 dice with no blocking) and then add extra
> damage
> > just based on what you know about the recieving
> > person's past sins (Bison is so screwed)
>
>
> thanks, but im too much of a perfectionist to post a
> system that
> loose for the raging demon. I know if I was a
> player and my dm did a
> move on me where he just go to "make up" damage, I
> would be pissed as
> hell:)

Alright then make a note each time you dock a pc honor
and what its for. If its beating up on a helpless
person, killing, not going to someone's aid, etc count
that as a sin of the past when the move gets done on
them. For each sin of the past add 3 dice of damage.

>
>
>
> > Stronly opionated and running on a lack of sleep
> does
> > not make one an asshole.
>
>
> thanks,
> but i think it actually might:)
>
>
>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
http://taxes.yahoo.com/

--- In streetfighter@y..., Jason Obeston <callanme@y...> wrote:

>
> Alright then make a note each time you dock a pc honor
> and what its for. If its beating up on a helpless
> person, killing, not going to someone's aid, etc count
> that as a sin of the past when the move gets done on
> them. For each sin of the past add 3 dice of damage.
>
>
>
> >
> >

thats basically what I'll be doing by creating the unique
background "bushido".

then one system of honor will track morals/sins.
the other will track pure honor without regard to good/evil.

M

do you happen to have these to scan?

I'll be doing an update on NPCs from the SF world soon, and Goukens
Daughter would make a good addition. (along with kens wife, sakuras
friends, illia's girlfriend, hugos manager, yun/yangs girlfriends,
dudleys butler, gills secretary.... That kinda thing)

The fact that no one knows anything about her is actually a great
benefit. then no matter how you make her she's not "wrong" (since
there are no facts about her) and cannot be picked apart.

Matt

--- In streetfighter@y..., "Andy Johnston" <dlatrex@h...> wrote:
> Ryu didn't see Gouken battle his brother Akuma. Gouken's
daughter saw it, but she disappeared after that. Gouken's daughter
has no official name. There are two official arts of her, though
they differ greatly from each other so it's hard to tell which one's
supposed to be correct. Ken also arrived near the end of the battle
and was able to witness it. The fact that Gouken had a daughter
seems to have been forgotten by Capcom and thus will probably never
resurface (the official arts of her come from ooooooold official
sources and you can't find the fact that Gouken has a daughter except
in really old sources, too. There are two official arts of her too,
both of which look completely different from each other).

Andy,
since you seem to have an awfull lot of info from capcom japan, is
there any chance you could find out some official stuff on Gill?

his story is so majorly vague by the videogame.

if you can read japanese or know sum1 who can, I have a very good
strategy guide with him in it that might have some info (The SF3:ts
Gamest Mook)

Matt

> --- In streetfighter@y..., "Andy Johnston" <dlatrex@h...> wrote:
> > Ryu didn't see Gouken battle his brother Akuma. Gouken's
> daughter saw it, but she disappeared after that. Gouken's daughter
> has no official name. There are two official arts of her, though
> they differ greatly from each other so it's hard to tell which

one's

> supposed to be correct. Ken also arrived near the end of the

battle

> and was able to witness it. The fact that Gouken had a daughter
> seems to have been forgotten by Capcom and thus will probably never
> resurface (the official arts of her come from ooooooold official
> sources and you can't find the fact that Gouken has a daughter

except

> in really old sources, too. There are two official arts of her

too,

> both of which look completely different from each other).

Is it just me, or are fireballs nearly useless? Their only advantage
is range, and whenever you get a few hexes between you and an opponent
they anticipate the fireball and jump right over it. Even if your
opponent doesn't have Jump (or some other anti-fireball maneuver),
there are plenty of +movement maneuvers that let her catch up to you
and deliver at least as much damage as your fireball hit for.

I'm thinking about this 'cuz one of the players in my group has been
missing a lot of games lately, and us other PCs are a bit worried that
he feels his Focus-specialized Kabbadi fighter is becoming a bitch
character.

What are other people's experiences with fireballs? Does anyone have
any house rules to make them more useful? (Our ST gave all Focus
maneuvers +1 to speed and damage, but even that hasn't helped much.)

They keep people honest. I had a coward in my game that would
punch once, and then try to run out the clock by running away.
Finally people added ranged attacks to nail him as he sprinted
away. One thing I do let them do is change the nature of the
attack. If it can be matched by sonic boom or ice blast they use
that, but 'chi blast' or 'lightning bolt' or any other generic
ranged energy attack is used as fireball. No effect on gameplay,
and it kept them happy.


---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "nat_drest" <joaqrb@...>
Reply-To: streetfighter@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 21:53:24 -0000

><html><body>
>
>
><tt>
>Is it just me, or are fireballs nearly useless?� Their only

advantage <BR>

>is range, and whenever you get a few hexes between you and an

opponent <BR>

>they anticipate the fireball and jump right over it.� Even if

your <BR>

>opponent doesn't have Jump (or some other anti-fireball

maneuver), <BR>

>there are plenty of +movement maneuvers that let her catch up to

you <BR>

>and deliver at least as much damage as your fireball hit for.<BR>
><BR>
>I'm thinking about this 'cuz one of the players in my group has

been <BR>

>missing a lot of games lately, and us other PCs are a bit worried

that <BR>

>he feels his Focus-specialized Kabbadi fighter is becoming a

bitch <BR>

>character.<BR>
><BR>
>What are other people's experiences with fireballs?� Does anyone

have <BR>

>any house rules to make them more useful?� (Our ST gave all Focus

<BR>

>maneuvers +1 to speed and damage, but even that hasn't helped

much.)<BR>

><BR>
></tt>
>
><br>
>
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