rickson is a badass.
I have a music video someone made with footage of his fights.
he is SOOO good.

--- In streetfighter@y..., Rodrigo Tatekawa <rodtatekawa@y...> wrote:
Bu t I do like to
> see Rickson Gracie fighting.
>
> []'s
> Rodrigo
>

Hello There!

> rickson is a badass. I have a music video someone
> made with footage of his fights.
> he is SOOO good.

Well, as he is the ONLY Gracie that was never
defeated, he earned my respect.
BTW, did you heard about the match between Royce
Gracie and Wallid Ismail?

And, hey! Anyone here adapted Jiu Jitsu for SF? Does
it exists in a official suplemment?

[]'s
Rodrigo

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> I was wondering
> if anyone had any cool idears to help kick a game off?

I started my current campaign off with a semi-exotic location for a
tournament; i.e. a logging camp in Northern B.C. (campaign being
based in Vancouver).

In any case, you probably know what's best for you and your players.
My group isn't so interested in the 'beat up the bad guys' scenarios,
and really just want to be in tournaments. Half of them don't
hesitate to Dragon Punch a Dizzied opponent (or put them in a
Stomache Pump), and half of the honorable guys are dishonorable
outside the ring (go figure). Basically, its kind of a fight to get
these guys to act like Good people, so I've had to re-evaluate if I
want to make Shadolaw a part of the campaign bigger than 'those dirty
fighters that keep screwing with us'.

--- In streetfighter@y..., Rodrigo Tatekawa <rodtatekawa@y...> wrote:

> Well, as he is the ONLY Gracie that was never
> defeated, he earned my respect.
> BTW, did you heard about the match between Royce
> Gracie and Wallid Ismail?

I heard Ismail choked him out. I never got to see that one though.
I saw the Pride tournament where Sakuraba beat him by decision though.
And I heard that Sakuraba also broke Royces brothers arm. (cant
remember which brother, I think its the one who had that 1 hit fight
with Oleg Taktarov, Ralf Gracie maybe?)

Rickson really is better, but here in america Royce was pretty much
the first BJJ most ppl have seen, so lots, like myself, remain
endeared to him. The concept has been around forever that skill will
beat size and strength but Royce was really the first to show that so
completely here since, oh i dunno, probly since bruce lee. so a lot
of ppl here are fans of Royce just because they are fans of BJJ and
the two things are the same in their mind.

I'm happy for Wallid Ismail and all but I think he has too big an ego
about beating Royce. He has full page ads out all of the sudden
after he did it selling his overpriced BJJ tapes, "The Gracie Killer"
in big bold letters. what a joke.

Also, while other gracies HAVE been defeated, their record is still
very impressive no? btw, about how many fights has rickson been in
anyway? I cant remember but I know it was a shitload, like 500 or
something with no losses.

> And, hey! Anyone here adapted Jiu Jitsu for SF? Does
> it exists in a official suplemment?

I never posted it but I made on paper brazilian Jiu jitsu and Royces
sheet. I'll post em if i can possibly find them.

there is already jiu jitsu in official street fighter but not
brazilian jiu jitsu, and its a sucky conversion anyhow. It doesnt
even have groundfighting!

> []'s
> Rodrigo
>
>

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> > And, hey! Anyone here adapted Jiu Jitsu for SF? Does
> > it exists in a official suplemment?
>
> I never posted it but I made on paper brazilian Jiu jitsu and

Royces > sheet. I'll post em if i can possibly find them.

>
> there is already jiu jitsu in official street fighter but not
> brazilian jiu jitsu, and its a sucky conversion anyhow. It doesnt
> even have groundfighting!

The official version is in the 'Street Fighter - Styles.doc' file in
the 'Reference Section' directory of the 'Files' section of this
group site.

On a separate note, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu seems to be very similar in
application to the Jiu Jitsu officially listed, and I wouldn't call
it 'sucky'. To make JJ into BJJ, only a few modifications are
required:

Remove Chi Kung Healing, San He, Energy Reflection and Zen No-Mind.
Add Groundfighting (3), Head Butt Hold (2), Head Butt (1), and
Braincracker (1).

You're done. No need for a whole new style...


Damn you Majestic Crow!!!

> Heh... I have actually made the Leap-on-you-and-Kick-You-Lots move
> before..
>
> But I called it Flashing Heel Stomps. It was actually Kim Kapwan who
> used it first back in KOF '94 and '95 I think.. That's when I made

it> anyway ^_^

>
> This plays as a jump onto Opponents head. And start Kicking.
> Then bounce away with remaining move.
>

Yeah, after playing Capcom vs SNK 2 a little more, I rewrote the move
so that Kim and King had the same move -- as far as I'm concerned,
King's move is a Jaguar Knee to Stomping Back Flip combo.

I haven't made any new styles because I don't know enough about
them. A current project is to create Maneuvers for the official
Styles that are weaker (Aikido, Tai Chi) in order to 'even the
playing field'.


Jaguar Knee
Prerequisites: Kick 4, Athletics 4, Tiger Knee
Power Points: TK 2; WK 4
Description: A variant of the Tiger Knee, developed by one of Sagat's
students who wished to create an obvious stylistic difference between
his Muay Thai and Sagat's Muay Thai.
System: Aerial; Knockdown; 2 damage tests
Cost: 2 Willpower
Speed: +3
Damage: +0 (2 damage tests)
Move: +0


Stomping Back Flip
Prerequisites: Kick 4, Athletics 4, Backflip Kick, Jump, Double Hit
Kick
Power Points: CA, WS 4; KF, SI 5
Description: The fighter leaps onto her opponent with both feet and
runs stomping up their body into a backflip, taking them away.
System: The fighter attacks, then moves (as Backflip Kick); Aerial;
Knockdown
Cost: 1 Willpower
Speed: -1
Damage: +0 (3 damage tests)
Move: Two (backwards, as Backflip Kick)

> I was wondering

> if anyone had any cool idears to help kick a game off?

A standard tried-and-tested formula:

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--- In streetfighter@y..., "mean_liar" <mean_liar@h...> wrote:

> On a separate note, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu seems to be very similar in
> application to the Jiu Jitsu officially listed, and I wouldn't call
> it 'sucky'.

i would:)
jiu jitsu without groundfighting is like chun li without fantasizing!


To make JJ into BJJ, only a few modifications are

> required:
>
> Remove Chi Kung Healing, San He, Energy Reflection and Zen No-Mind.
> Add Groundfighting (3), Head Butt Hold (2), Head Butt (1), and
> Braincracker (1).
>
> You're done. No need for a whole new style...

you just made a whole new style.
(btw, add flying tackle too, and a bunch of other stuff:))

Attachments :

hmmmm, saying the supers don't work like they do in the game & then bassing
them on KOF? That's a little odd. The super moves are good, but you should
maybe scraatch the super combo idear in favour of just letting supers be
part of a normal combo. The armour & counter things are odd, maybe I'm just
a purist, but I'd stick to Street Fighter for the super system. Your idears
are well thought out though, & do seem like they could make a welcome
addition to a game.

DarkLight

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I see a lot of stuff around for new styles, like the Jui Jitsu to Brazillian
Jui Jitsu, & things like that. I think that maybe people should be a little
less concerned with 'real world' acuracy. ie, you get someone who does BJJ,
& they go "hey, but we learn this, so my character should be able to as
well". I think that this should just be a GM tweak for a specific
character, otherwise you'd have to redo half the game system, remember that
these are streetfighter versions of martial arts, not the real thing. I do
Shotokan, & if I were to apply the things that traditional Shotokan do, then
the stlye would have WAY too many special moves. If you're just looking for
the game point of view, then pick the style that has the closest moce list
to what you want & call it something else. Just my 2% of a Dollar.

DarkLight

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Okay, don't be so aggressive... ;p

I was just wondering;
A long long time ago,
when I was part active on this list,
someone was talking about using the
SF system for a pokemon themed campaign.

As I am making monsters for a fantasy setting,
I would like to take a look at these rules, if possible?

Could the person who made these rules mail them to me?
Please?

Thanks in advance!

Ståle Tevik, hr.

I actually got a C64 emu on my PC. With Yie R Kung Fu and IK+.

They rule. But not nearly as much as the Last ninja series.

They also exists on the emu ^_^


------Ronin-----

--- In streetfighter@y..., "necro6hit" <ringthief@c...> wrote:
> geez i remember playing Yie Ar Kung Fu and Skate or Die on the
> Commodore 64.... That brings back memories:)
>
> M
>
> --- In streetfighter@y..., "galin_ra" <randerssen@h...> wrote:
> > Heh.. First time I played it was on a Commodore 64 ^_^
> >
> >
> > -----Ronin-----
> >
> >
> > --- In streetfighter@y..., Jason Obeston <callanme@y...> wrote:
> > > Ah. They did later appear in alpha though right? At
> > > least I think they're in on of the alpha's I have for
> > > dreamcast. Anyway did the original streetfighter ever
> > > hit any platforms or was it soley arcade?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- nat_drest <joaqrb@y...> wrote:
> > > > Those are from the very first game, just-plain
> > > > Street Fighter. (At
> > > > least, Eagle is. Don't recall the names of most of
> > > > the characters.)
> > > > SF:STG is based on Street Fighter 2, like pretty
> > > > much all subsidiary
> > > > SF material.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In streetfighter@y..., Jason Obeston
> > > > <callanme@y...> wrote:
> > > > > Think its because the game came out before alphas.
> > > >
> > > > > Pretty sure it came out in the 2d 16 bit era.
> > > > >
> > > > > --- Rinaldo Gambetta <rinaldo.gambetta@t...>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > I´m curious in STF RPG, they never talk
> > > > about
> > > > > > the first characters
> > > > > > except of course Ryu, Ken, Mike (Maybe is
> > > > Balrog)
> > > > > > and Sagat. Somebody use in
> > > > > > a campaing the old characters like Joe, Geki and
> > > > > > Eagle?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Re: King's desperation move:
> > > > No, we're talking about her special called "surprise
> > > > rose". It's a
> > > > fairly recent addition to her repertoire; she may
> > > > not have had it
> > > > back in KoF '98.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Re: Terry's "burning knuckle":
> > > > Yeah, it is very much like dashing punch, but... if
> > > > I really wanted
> > > > to use it in a game for some odd reason, I'd
> > > > probably make it an
> > > > improved version of dashing punch, like flaming
> > > > dragon punch is to
> > > > dragon punch. Dunno what stats... just dashing
> > > > punch with an
> > > > additional chi cost and a second damage test plus
> > > > knockdown, or
> > > > something. And as a special effect, have the user
> > > > move through the
> > > > victim's hex to the hex on the other side. (IIRC,
> > > > in the videogame
> > > > Terry charges straight "through" the opponent as she
> > > > falls.)
> > > >
> > > > Basically I just want to reflect that burning
> > > > knuckle is a really
> > > > powerful maneuver, not just a run-and-punch. ^_^
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball
> > > http://sports.yahoo.com

The SF rules is made witrh combos excactly to reflect moves that can
be done in rapid succession. Just look at Rekka Ken.

In the game the opponent had little chance to go inbetween Fei Longs
Rekka Ken. But it is a three round move in the STG.

That's my two cents.

I liked Kim's flashing heel stomps better on the earlier KOF. Later it
seems like he is gliding down his opponent with legs outstretched ^_^


All moves presented on the list should be put in a text file on files
section. For easier access later.


-----Ronin-----

--- In streetfighter@y..., "mean_liar" <mean_liar@h...> wrote:
> > Heh... I have actually made the Leap-on-you-and-Kick-You-Lots move
> > before..
> >
> > But I called it Flashing Heel Stomps. It was actually Kim Kapwan who
> > used it first back in KOF '94 and '95 I think.. That's when I made
> it> anyway ^_^
> >
> > This plays as a jump onto Opponents head. And start Kicking.
> > Then bounce away with remaining move.
> >
>
> Yeah, after playing Capcom vs SNK 2 a little more, I rewrote the move
> so that Kim and King had the same move -- as far as I'm concerned,
> King's move is a Jaguar Knee to Stomping Back Flip combo.
>
> I haven't made any new styles because I don't know enough about
> them. A current project is to create Maneuvers for the official
> Styles that are weaker (Aikido, Tai Chi) in order to 'even the
> playing field'.
>
>
> Jaguar Knee
> Prerequisites: Kick 4, Athletics 4, Tiger Knee
> Power Points: TK 2; WK 4
> Description: A variant of the Tiger Knee, developed by one of Sagat's
> students who wished to create an obvious stylistic difference between
> his Muay Thai and Sagat's Muay Thai.
> System: Aerial; Knockdown; 2 damage tests
> Cost: 2 Willpower
> Speed: +3
> Damage: +0 (2 damage tests)
> Move: +0
>
>
> Stomping Back Flip
> Prerequisites: Kick 4, Athletics 4, Backflip Kick, Jump, Double Hit
> Kick
> Power Points: CA, WS 4; KF, SI 5
> Description: The fighter leaps onto her opponent with both feet and
> runs stomping up their body into a backflip, taking them away.
> System: The fighter attacks, then moves (as Backflip Kick); Aerial;
> Knockdown
> Cost: 1 Willpower
> Speed: -1
> Damage: +0 (3 damage tests)
> Move: Two (backwards, as Backflip Kick)

bjj has NO elements of capoiera, but i see your point.


--- In streetfighter@y..., "The King of Chickens 2001"
<chickenno1@h...> wrote:

> Someone who has studied BJJ, for eg, could simply have studied a

form of JJ with some principles of Capoiera thrown in.

Truthfully, Styles generally are okay as they are. Jeet Kune Do, in
particular, represents the catch-all stylist and the self-taught gurus.
Since it costs more points to study the non-normal maneuvers, of which you
could simply take some other style and pay less, you represent a
less-skilled, but more eclectic, stylist.

My only problem is with Boxing. Not every stylist in Boxing is a
heavyweight, but the style is almost eminently applied to heavyweights, with
powerful punches being the leeway. I, personally, feel Esquivez is very much
a part of the Boxing style. So is Displacement. Savate, minus the kicks, is
much closer to a true boxing style than Boxing is. Thus, if you plan on
making a non-heavyweight fighter, you should choose Savate rather than the
more traditional Boxing.

Sanbo/Sambo also, is not very close to its traditional counterpart. Sambo
is very much a counter-grappling art, and it cleaned up in the 1984 Olympics
against the more traditional Greco-Roman stylists. Not everyone is a deadly
Zangief in Sambo. Some would be more apt to study, say... Special Forces and
concentrate on Grapples and Counters.

But that's my two sense. I'm much more in to more traditional Western
styles of fighting than the Bruce Lee Eastern styles. I feel that Western
styles get overlooked more often in favor of the more Eastern Styles.

Strangely, this doesn't stop me from watching Japan Today and getting the
Basho results. Bah. I didn't start out wanting to watch Sumo, but I've
learned it fascinates me.

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--- nat_drest <joaqrb@...> wrote:

> Ok, I doubt anyone but me cares about her, but I just wanna say that
> I've been looking her over, and I'm pretty sure her style is savate.
> Her stance does look very muay thai, but none of her moves bear that
> out.

One more point of evidence for King being a Muay Thai practitioner is the
special intro between her and Joe Higashi in KOF '98. Joe (reigning Muay Thai
champ and my favorite Satan of the martial arts) whips out his championship
belt (presumably from belt-space), puts it on and laughs at King while she
facepalms and sighs.

Not conclusive evidence, but it does imply that Joe thinks she's Muay Thai.

=====
staredown@... http://staredown.8m.net

"We don't expect kittens to fight wildcats and win
--we merely expect them to try."
-- Robert Heinlein

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> i would:)
> jiu jitsu without groundfighting is like chun li without

fantasizing!

Well, not the way they've written up Groundfighting. From what I
understand of Jiu Jitsu, there aren't many punches and kicks thrown
from a prone position. The idea is to go prone with the opponent in
a grab, yes?

Pankration, Special Forces, and Sleeping Crane Kung Fu are the only
styles (in my limited knowledge base, admittedly) that practice prone
fighting techniques.

Personally, I think that a separate "Groundfighting" maneuver should
be made for insituting a Grab from a kncokdown position, and keep
that separate from the striking-while-prone 'official' Groundfighting.

> To make JJ into BJJ, only a few modifications are
> > required:
> >
> > Remove Chi Kung Healing, San He, Energy Reflection and Zen No-

Mind.

> > Add Groundfighting (3), Head Butt Hold (2), Head Butt (1), and
> > Braincracker (1).
> >
> > You're done. No need for a whole new style...
>
>
> you just made a whole new style.
> (btw, add flying tackle too, and a bunch of other stuff:))

Well, its not exactly a "whole new style". I'd probably allow Jiu
Jitsu practitioners and BJJ stylists to learn from each other's
lists, maybe with a talented sensei. Perhaps with the JKD method (if
JJ, buy BJJ moves at +1 cost, and viceversa).

And Flying Tackle is an Any 2. It doesn't really need to be made
cheap for anyone. I mean, Wrestling should have Flying Tackle if BJJ
should have it. Or Boxing should have the Buffalo Punch. It just
isn't necessary, really.


And I'd call it a "substyle". Only because I don't make "whole nre
styles". ;)

> Truthfully, Styles generally are okay as they are. Jeet Kune Do,

in > particular, represents the catch-all stylist and the self-taught
gurus. > Since it costs more points to study the non-normal
maneuvers, of which you > could simply take some other style and pay
less, you represent a > less-skilled, but more eclectic, stylist.

I'm stealing this answer for the next guy that wants to play (insert
the "ultimate fighting style" here).

Good stuff, and an easy answer. I like it.

> My only problem is with Boxing. Not every stylist in Boxing is a
> heavyweight, but the style is almost eminently applied to

heavyweights, with > powerful punches being the leeway. I,
personally, feel Esquivez is very much > a part of the Boxing style.
So is Displacement. Savate, minus the kicks, is > much closer to a
true boxing style than Boxing is. Thus, if you plan on > making a non-
heavyweight fighter, you should choose Savate rather than the

> more traditional Boxing.

I don't know if a traditional boxer could 'hang' with Street
Fighters. I mean, this isn't for points, and there are generally no
holds barred, right?

Besides, the SF video game has no time for technicians.

However, I agree that Displacement and Esquives should be far more
common amongst the styles.

> Sanbo/Sambo also, is not very close to its traditional

counterpart. Sambo > is very much a counter-grappling art, and it
cleaned up in the 1984 Olympics > against the more traditional Greco-
Roman stylists. Not everyone is a deadly > Zangief in Sambo. Some
would be more apt to study, say... Special Forces and > concentrate
on Grapples and Counters.

Bayman!!!!

> But that's my two sense. I'm much more in to more traditional

Western > styles of fighting than the Bruce Lee Eastern styles. I
feel that Western > styles get overlooked more often in favor of the
more Eastern Styles.

Bruce Lee had little idea of what traditional Kung Fu was. Or, at
least, he didn't think developing Chi was worth the effort.

Too bad, too. I think he may have had too much sex to really get his
chi going.

ok on this subject dose anyone have a luchadore style
sitting arround?

clif
--- Blue Dorian <bdorian@...> wrote:

>
>
>
> Truthfully, Styles generally are okay as they
> are. Jeet Kune Do, in
> particular, represents the catch-all stylist and the
> self-taught gurus.
> Since it costs more points to study the non-normal
> maneuvers, of which you
> could simply take some other style and pay less, you
> represent a
> less-skilled, but more eclectic, stylist.
>
> My only problem is with Boxing. Not every stylist
> in Boxing is a
> heavyweight, but the style is almost eminently
> applied to heavyweights, with
> powerful punches being the leeway. I, personally,
> feel Esquivez is very much
> a part of the Boxing style. So is Displacement.
> Savate, minus the kicks, is
> much closer to a true boxing style than Boxing is.
> Thus, if you plan on
> making a non-heavyweight fighter, you should choose
> Savate rather than the
> more traditional Boxing.
>
> Sanbo/Sambo also, is not very close to its
> traditional counterpart. Sambo
> is very much a counter-grappling art, and it cleaned
> up in the 1984 Olympics
> against the more traditional Greco-Roman stylists.
> Not everyone is a deadly
> Zangief in Sambo. Some would be more apt to study,
> say... Special Forces and
> concentrate on Grapples and Counters.
>
> But that's my two sense. I'm much more in to more
> traditional Western
> styles of fighting than the Bruce Lee Eastern
> styles. I feel that Western
> styles get overlooked more often in favor of the
> more Eastern Styles.
>
> Strangely, this doesn't stop me from watching
> Japan Today and getting the
> Basho results. Bah. I didn't start out wanting to
> watch Sumo, but I've
> learned it fascinates me.
>
>

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>

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Is there a reason to impose styles at all btw?

I mean, is there some glaring unbalancing thing you can do that im
just missing?

couldnt the whole game be played perfectly fine without styles and
everyone just pays the same amount for moves?

I think Im going to make a chart this weekend showing how much to pay
for each move if you take styles out of the game completely.

:)

----- Original Message -----

From: necro6hit

To: streetfighter@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 2:31 PM

Subject: [streetfighter] Styles (lack of)

Is there a reason to impose styles at all btw?

I mean, is there some glaring unbalancing thing you can do that im
just missing?

couldnt the whole game be played perfectly fine without styles and
everyone just pays the same amount for moves?

I think Im going to make a chart this weekend showing how much to pay
for each move if you take styles out of the game completely.

:)



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

--- In streetfighter@y..., "necro6hit" <ringthief@c...> wrote:

> Is there a reason to impose styles at all btw?
>
> I mean, is there some glaring unbalancing thing you can do that im
> just missing?

Basically, yes, the Experience point decrease is limited. The main
point of Styles (that I can see) is to limit access to the unique
maneuvers (Hyperfist, Dragon Punch, Improved Fireball, Dragon Kick,
etc).

To me, the unique manuevers are what defines a style. I mean, what
is a Boxer without a Turn Punch and Hyperfist? What is a Ler Drit
master without Mind Control?

I suppose you could give everyone access to the same moves, for the
same points, without compromising game balance (actually, you'd be
enhancing it, obviously). But then you'd lose the 'flavor' that the
styles have, and thats unappealing to me.

> In my games it matters pretty little: if a character want's a move

(advanced) he has to find someone to teach it to him anyway. And why
would a Kung Fu monk teach Dim Mak to a Sambo wrestler? I guess if
he can justify it.... =)


I toyed with that idea, but decided against it. The 'flavor' of Jeet
Kune Do is that its the only 'style' that has access to all
maneuvers, and to allow unlimited access would remove the flavor of
Jeet Kune Do.

--- In streetfighter@y..., cliff rice <shinzite@y...> wrote:

> ok on this subject dose anyone have a luchadore style
> sitting arround?

Ooops. I said I'd do that, didn't I?
Okay...

Start with Wrestling.

Remove Back Breaker, Bear Hug, Dislocate Limb, Groundfighting,
Improved Pin(2), Pin(2), Stomache Pump, Storm Hammer

Add Backflip Kick (3), Air Suplex (2), Backflip (2), Flying Body
Spear (3), Tumbling Attack (4), Thunderstrike (2), Musical
Accompaniment (1), Balance (4), Pin (3)

Seems okay to me.

Actually I worked one up but I'm really not satisfied
with it. No where near quick enough or aerial enough.
If I work on it more I'll end up taking moves that
wouldn't be near luchadore, renaming them, and
redescribing them. I really can't believe with three
wrestling variants I can't find a dropkick in the move
list.


--- cliff rice <shinzite@...> wrote:

> ok on this subject dose anyone have a luchadore
> style
> sitting arround?
>
> clif
> --- Blue Dorian <bdorian@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Truthfully, Styles generally are okay as they
> > are. Jeet Kune Do, in
> > particular, represents the catch-all stylist and
> the
> > self-taught gurus.
> > Since it costs more points to study the non-normal
> > maneuvers, of which you
> > could simply take some other style and pay less,
> you
> > represent a
> > less-skilled, but more eclectic, stylist.
> >
> > My only problem is with Boxing. Not every
> stylist
> > in Boxing is a
> > heavyweight, but the style is almost eminently
> > applied to heavyweights, with
> > powerful punches being the leeway. I, personally,
> > feel Esquivez is very much
> > a part of the Boxing style. So is Displacement.
> > Savate, minus the kicks, is
> > much closer to a true boxing style than Boxing is.
> > Thus, if you plan on
> > making a non-heavyweight fighter, you should
> choose
> > Savate rather than the
> > more traditional Boxing.
> >
> > Sanbo/Sambo also, is not very close to its
> > traditional counterpart. Sambo
> > is very much a counter-grappling art, and it
> cleaned
> > up in the 1984 Olympics
> > against the more traditional Greco-Roman stylists.
> > Not everyone is a deadly
> > Zangief in Sambo. Some would be more apt to study,
> > say... Special Forces and
> > concentrate on Grapples and Counters.
> >
> > But that's my two sense. I'm much more in to
> more
> > traditional Western
> > styles of fighting than the Bruce Lee Eastern
> > styles. I feel that Western
> > styles get overlooked more often in favor of the
> > more Eastern Styles.
> >
> > Strangely, this doesn't stop me from watching
> > Japan Today and getting the
> > Basho results. Bah. I didn't start out wanting to
> > watch Sumo, but I've
> > learned it fascinates me.
> >
> >
>

_________________________________________________________________

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> > http://mobile.msn.com
> >
> >
>
>
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sorry for ranting:)

--- In streetfighter@y..., "Andy Johnston" <dlatrex@h...> wrote:
> It's called Jeet Kune Do; read 'The Contenders'.

wow! that was overly smart-ass for no reason.
Im sick of ppl reacting to anything new like that.
first brazilian jiu jitsu and now this.
If I didnt know any better I'd say you guys LIKE the books being out
of print. that way everythings old.

why would anyone be against new stuff? If you dont like it, dont use
it! why would anyone respond so cynicaly?

me: "i think i might post a brazilian jiu jitsu style"
lamers: "just use jiu jitsu stupid"
me: "i think ill post an optional way to buy moves without styles"
lamers: "just use jeet kune do stupid"
me: "i think ill do something new"
lamers: "we fear change. (stupid!)"

geez! raise your hand if you just joined this list to shoot down ppls
ideas and insist everyone play the same way you do! lets get a head
count!


>Everyone can get anything, they just have to pay full price.

yeah, which is why thats not what I was talking about.
that would fuck up the balance of costs because then moves that are
availiable to only 1 style would be cheaper than another move that
was availiable to many, even if that second move wasnt as good or
they were equal in power..

because moves that are availiable more widely have a higher "highest
price to pay" than exclusive moves.

>The other option is going the Cyborg route as they are allowed to
>get any focus technique.

well that is "THE" other option, if you for some reason dont like new
things. otherwise theirs hundreds of other options.


> If you ask me, making every manuver availible to everyone kind of
>eliminates the point of developing one's art to a fine point.

What about swordfighting? thats an irl art that can be developed to a
fine point? and yet ppl have ALL had the same moves in DnD for years
with no complaints.

lets compare sniping with quick draw.
yet everyone has had the same "gun moves" in rifts without complaints.

hell you could even break it down by skills.
"Driving"
are indy cars and monster trucks the same?
oh no! (gasp) the skill system eliminates the point of developing
one's art to a fine point!!!
what ever will we do!!!


>Heck, the whole 'Traditionalist' division of Street Fighters should
>go out the window in your case.

pls dont talk about "in my case".
I dont think you have any idea how i would use this system in my game
if i did.
the way i would use it would make play funner, and by your pessimism
on the idea i'd say it hadnt occured to you how to do that.

> In my games it matters pretty little: if a character want's a move
(advanced) he has to find someone to teach it to him anyway. And why
would a Kung Fu monk teach Dim Mak to a Sambo wrestler? I guess if
he can justify it.... =)

wow, your games sound pretty good. their must be some deep
roleplaying if that is the only extent to which characters of 2
different styles can have a relationship to one another!

would you like a humorous and sarcasticly long list of possible
reasons a kung fu master would teach dim mak to a sambo wrestler?
there are about 1 million feasable ones.
lol

First of all many people like the things as they are, but nobody can
stop the imagination process the STF book can´t cover all possibilities if
you want create an style to... let me see... British Butlers (It´s just an
example) you can, but this a free world, maybe some guys don´t like the idea
but don´t matter it´s your mind and your creation, go ahead and make new
things. Me for example a some time ago I write a lot of new styles some with
a good idea and others not, here there few survivors from that time:
Pittman, Hoffman, Karstensen, and others. I try a e-mail tournament but my
time get short and I couldn´t finish it, I remember the e-mail campaing from
Pittman it´s a good one but it´s over. About Vanessa "Vale Tudo" I don´t
agree it´s boxing, I will explain she use only punches, make boxing feints
and all boxer stuff. Gracie Jiu Jitsu, you can post the basic is from Jiu
Jitsu from Contenders, just add the new stuff and enjoy. and just for
information in a joke campaing I make the British Butler style, the main
enemy is a butler called Nigel, an terrible opponent when using his double
fork attack. :).

----- Original Message -----
From: "necro6hit" <ringthief@...>
To: <streetfighter@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 10:55 PM
Subject: [streetfighter] Re: Styles (lack of)


> sorry for ranting:)
>
> --- In streetfighter@y..., "Andy Johnston" <dlatrex@h...> wrote:
> > It's called Jeet Kune Do; read 'The Contenders'.
>
> wow! that was overly smart-ass for no reason.
> Im sick of ppl reacting to anything new like that.
> first brazilian jiu jitsu and now this.
> If I didnt know any better I'd say you guys LIKE the books being out
> of print. that way everythings old.
>
> why would anyone be against new stuff? If you dont like it, dont use
> it! why would anyone respond so cynicaly?
>
> me: "i think i might post a brazilian jiu jitsu style"
> lamers: "just use jiu jitsu stupid"
> me: "i think ill post an optional way to buy moves without styles"
> lamers: "just use jeet kune do stupid"
> me: "i think ill do something new"
> lamers: "we fear change. (stupid!)"
>
> geez! raise your hand if you just joined this list to shoot down ppls
> ideas and insist everyone play the same way you do! lets get a head
> count!
>
>
> >Everyone can get anything, they just have to pay full price.
>
> yeah, which is why thats not what I was talking about.
> that would fuck up the balance of costs because then moves that are
> availiable to only 1 style would be cheaper than another move that
> was availiable to many, even if that second move wasnt as good or
> they were equal in power..
>
> because moves that are availiable more widely have a higher "highest
> price to pay" than exclusive moves.
>
> >The other option is going the Cyborg route as they are allowed to
> >get any focus technique.
>
> well that is "THE" other option, if you for some reason dont like new
> things. otherwise theirs hundreds of other options.
>
>
> > If you ask me, making every manuver availible to everyone kind of
> >eliminates the point of developing one's art to a fine point.
>
> What about swordfighting? thats an irl art that can be developed to a
> fine point? and yet ppl have ALL had the same moves in DnD for years
> with no complaints.
>
> lets compare sniping with quick draw.
> yet everyone has had the same "gun moves" in rifts without complaints.
>
> hell you could even break it down by skills.
> "Driving"
> are indy cars and monster trucks the same?
> oh no! (gasp) the skill system eliminates the point of developing
> one's art to a fine point!!!
> what ever will we do!!!
>
>
> >Heck, the whole 'Traditionalist' division of Street Fighters should
> >go out the window in your case.
>
> pls dont talk about "in my case".
> I dont think you have any idea how i would use this system in my game
> if i did.
> the way i would use it would make play funner, and by your pessimism
> on the idea i'd say it hadnt occured to you how to do that.
>
> > In my games it matters pretty little: if a character want's a move
> (advanced) he has to find someone to teach it to him anyway. And why
> would a Kung Fu monk teach Dim Mak to a Sambo wrestler? I guess if
> he can justify it.... =)
>
> wow, your games sound pretty good. their must be some deep
> roleplaying if that is the only extent to which characters of 2
> different styles can have a relationship to one another!
>
> would you like a humorous and sarcasticly long list of possible
> reasons a kung fu master would teach dim mak to a sambo wrestler?
> there are about 1 million feasable ones.
> lol
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>

Seriously, man - Nobody was calling you stupid for wanting to introduce
new things to the game. Personally, I feel that Streetfighter -is- lacking
certain things. For me, however, Styles is not something they lack. If it
were up to me, I'd try to make the game less about speed-monkeys.
Groundfighting does this, as does that one merit Sure Feet. The only thing
it doesn't stop, however, are super-fast Grapplers. Someone with a dex of 2,
like Zangief, can easily be grabbed by someone with... Say... A dex of 5 and
the Head Bite maneuver(Like Blanka). And forget trying to stop a Dex 7
person, like Vega.

I've been considering making a sustained hold as an opposed check as soon
as you enter with it, meaning that a dainty lil' thing like Fei Long will
most likely fail to grapple someone as mighty as Zangief, Balrog or M.
Bison. I'm a bit wary of doing that, but... Hmm... I dunno what else would
work to at least give big, slow, tough grapplers a chance versus the li'l
guys. Hrm.

_________________________________________________________________
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http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

Well nobody can be perfect Fei Long have speed so he must pay in another
place, see Zangief a faster guy can just use foot sweep and make him fall
all the time.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Blue Dorian" <bdorian@...>
To: <streetfighter@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 1:36 PM
Subject: Re: [streetfighter] Re: Styles (lack of)


>
>
> Seriously, man - Nobody was calling you stupid for wanting to introduce
> new things to the game. Personally, I feel that Streetfighter -is- lacking
> certain things. For me, however, Styles is not something they lack. If it
> were up to me, I'd try to make the game less about speed-monkeys.
> Groundfighting does this, as does that one merit Sure Feet. The only thing
> it doesn't stop, however, are super-fast Grapplers. Someone with a dex of
2,
> like Zangief, can easily be grabbed by someone with... Say... A dex of 5
and
> the Head Bite maneuver(Like Blanka). And forget trying to stop a Dex 7
> person, like Vega.
>
> I've been considering making a sustained hold as an opposed check as
soon
> as you enter with it, meaning that a dainty lil' thing like Fei Long will
> most likely fail to grapple someone as mighty as Zangief, Balrog or M.
> Bison. I'm a bit wary of doing that, but... Hmm... I dunno what else would
> work to at least give big, slow, tough grapplers a chance versus the li'l
> guys. Hrm.
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>

>From: "Rinaldo Gambetta" <rinaldo.gambetta@...>
>Reply-To: streetfighter@yahoogroups.com
>To: <streetfighter@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [streetfighter] Re: Styles (lack of)
>Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 10:55:27 -0300
>
>Well nobody can be perfect Fei Long have speed so he must pay in another
>place, see Zangief a faster guy can just use foot sweep and make him fall
>all the time.

Though I agree that nobody can be perfect, in the SF system, slower
fighters are at a serious disadvantage - And it's not just knockdowns, but
fast-grapples(Since you just lose your action) and various Focus maneuvers
that make you lose your action. Fei Long's disadvantage is that he gets less
dice to soak, his advantage is that, against slower fighters, he'll never
-have- to soak. About the only thing Zangief can hope for is that Fei Long
will botch his damage roll and get tossed in a spinning piledriver. Smushy.
Unfortunately, he's good enough that, even against 7 dice of soak, he's
still doing enough damage that botching isn't terribly likely.

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

>> I've been considering making a sustained hold as an opposed check as
>soon
>> as you enter with it, meaning that a dainty lil' thing like Fei Long will
>> most likely fail to grapple someone as mighty as Zangief, Balrog or M.
>> Bison. I'm a bit wary of doing that, but... Hmm... I dunno what else would
>> work to at least give big, slow, tough grapplers a chance versus the li'l
>> guys. Hrm.
>>

Interesting, In my limited play experience, the slow tough guys were an
advantage over the Speed guys. There's no way to really "evade" in Streetfighter
(Aside from a few speical manuvers) so unless you costantly use Knockdown
manuvers, that big, slow but extremely powerful blow is coming and its going
to hurt. The biggest disadvantage to the grapplers tended to be they
couldn't acutally "grapple" anyone, since grabs were generally slow and the
speed guy could always move out of range.

>> _________________________________________________________________
>> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
>> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

thats how i take it when in both cases it was implied that the answer
was already in the books (in the form of jiu jitsu and jkd) if only i
could READ.

--- In streetfighter@y..., "Blue Dorian" <bdorian@h...> wrote:
>
>
> Seriously, man - Nobody was calling you stupid for wanting to
introduce
> new things to the game.

> Interesting, In my limited play experience, the slow tough guys

were an> advantage over the Speed guys. There's no way to
really "evade" in Streetfighter> (Aside from a few speical manuvers)
so unless you costantly use Knockdown> manuvers, that big, slow but
extremely powerful blow is coming and its going> to hurt. The
biggest disadvantage to the grapplers tended to be they> couldn't
acutally "grapple" anyone, since grabs were generally slow and the>
speed guy could always move out of range.


It only works that way against fast, low-Athletics guys. Otherwise,
that slow devastating attack will never hit. After all, it goes
first (but can be interrupted), so the moment its about to hit, the
fast dude backs off out of range. And as long as he has a good
Athletics and good basic Techniques (Punch or Kick), he can Forward
or Short Kick to his heart's content.

--- In streetfighter@y..., "herrtevik" <herrtevik@h...> wrote:

> Okay, don't be so aggressive... ;p
>
> I was just wondering;
> A long long time ago,
> when I was part active on this list,
> someone was talking about using the
> SF system for a pokemon themed campaign.
>
> As I am making monsters for a fantasy setting,
> I would like to take a look at these rules, if possible?
>
> Could the person who made these rules mail them to me?
> Please?

-oh, and my adress is Herrtevik@...

> Thanks in advance!
>
> Ståle Tevik, hr.

--- In streetfighter@y..., "Andy Johnston" <dlatrex@h...> wrote:

> Hey necro! How you doing today?

fine

> It seems that you took my response kind of the wrong way.

I dont think i did.

> In fact badly. I ment none of it with malice nor insult, just
>brevity as I had short time to type. While I may not have questioned
>your intelligence before... well, you know =)
>

oh thats nice....

> Admittedly a good portion of the list is lacking the books. But
>thanks to a bunch of dilligent role-players, most of the things in
>the sourcebooks can be found online if you need them. A short list
>of all the discounts can be found here
>http://mu.ranter.net/rpg/styles.html and I'm sure there are other
>more comprehensive sites out there. How many books do you have?

2 copies of each, a worn as hell copy i use, and a mint copy in
storage.

3 copies of some as im collecting them to give out in a future series
of contests @ my site. (i just scored another Secrets of Shadowloo
recently! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
ViewItem&item=1709331845)

>There might be other elements that white wolf added that you could
>find interesting.

seen it all.

>You also seem quite interested in developing your
>own session. I hope it's fun. Let us know what changes you've made
>to the system and how it makes the game better. We've had several
>folks come up with thier own additions and modifications of the
>game, and some of em are pretty cool ideas. Whatever makes the game
>go better, as White Wolf said.

why the sudden interest?

> On another note, try to keep the profanity and the flaming to a
>minimum. It would be a waste for you to be kicked off-list over
>something trivial.

If your not a mod don't threaten me.
If Mike or Fred feel I am out of line they will warn me, and I will
listen.
when you do it you just make me like you less.

> Your pal -Aj
>

oh really?

> P.S. The Kung Fu and Sambo encounter acctually does sound funny.
>Post some of your thoughts!

Well, in a campaign that focused on roleplaying instead of cliche or
stereotypes, a Kung Fu master might be persuaded to teach a russian
grappler Dim Mak for any of the following reasons or more:

This particular Kung Fu master might only care who paid the most when
he selects students.

They could be old teammates and friends.

The Kung Fu guy might owe the russian some huge life-debt for saving
him or a family member.

The KF guy could be under the influence of Mind Control.

The kung fu master might be russian himself and feel a kinship with
his rasslin comrade. (not all kung fu masters are chinese)

by the same token, the sambo guy might be chinese and they feel a
kinship.

for that matter, they could both be the same nationality and be
brothers or related somehow.

The kung fu guy might have always wanted to take russian grappling
but his traditionalist parents enrolled him in kung fu anyway. If he
teaches the grappler dim mak the grappler promises to teach him the
screw piledriver in return.

the kung fu guy might be a complete idiot. the autistic master
maybe?:)

The grappler could be using disguise or a supernatural power like
twelve has to appear as someone else, someone he would teach dim mak
to.

etc. etc. etc.

Matt

Matt's Conversions
http://www.tlcnet.com/~slappy/sf/

>It only works that way against fast, low-Athletics guys. Otherwise,
>that slow devastating attack will never hit. After all, it goes
>first (but can be interrupted), so the moment its about to hit, the
>fast dude backs off out of range. And as long as he has a good
>Athletics and good basic Techniques (Punch or Kick), he can Forward
>or Short Kick to his heart's content.

But once he does interupt the attack and attack on his own, he's stuck
there. He can't move anymore. Assuming his kick or punch didn't Dizzy,
knockdown or knockout his opponent. That blow is still coming. Only certain
manuvers like Backflip Kick allow you to move after attacking.

>

I'm not making myself clear...

If 2 opponents are more than 1 hex apart, the speed demon controls
the round. The slow guy moves first, which either a) takes him into
range, or b) does not. If the attack is in range, the fast guy
interrupts and backs off. If the attack isout of range, the fast
guy lets the slow dude finish his move and then takes his turn as
normal, hitting the slow dude.

Next round, play a Move (if conservative) or a Short Kick (if not).
In either case, you can let the slow dude go first and then back off
if necessary. In doing so, the fast dude tries to set up the
situation again as above. Repeat as desired.

The only way this strategy doesn't work is when the fast guy
Botches. Otherwise, a 2pt DEX difference between characters is
usually fatal. The trick is to come in and attack, then move out
before getting hit. If the opportunity to strike without exchanging
blows isn't there, then don't go in. Easy.

At 01:53 AM 3/10/02 -0000, you wrote:

>I'm not making myself clear...
>
>If 2 opponents are more than 1 hex apart, the speed demon controls
>the round. The slow guy moves first, which either a) takes him into
>range, or b) does not. If the attack is in range, the fast guy
>interrupts and backs off. If the attack isout of range, the fast
>guy lets the slow dude finish his move and then takes his turn as
>normal, hitting the slow dude.
>
>Next round, play a Move (if conservative) or a Short Kick (if not).
>In either case, you can let the slow dude go first and then back off
>if necessary. In doing so, the fast dude tries to set up the
>situation again as above. Repeat as desired.
>
>The only way this strategy doesn't work is when the fast guy
>Botches. Otherwise, a 2pt DEX difference between characters is
>usually fatal. The trick is to come in and attack, then move out
>before getting hit. If the opportunity to strike without exchanging
>blows isn't there, then don't go in. Easy.
>

Perhaps we've been playing it diffrently. But the above wouldn't work the
way we've been handling it. Fast Guy backs off and lets Slow Dude finish his
move and is out of range. But, Fast Guy has done his move when he
interupted, he can't just move again once Slow Guy is finished, walk up and
slug him without fear of reprisal. They way we read the rules and combat
example that seemed to be the way it worked.

>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

hi Kim,
here are some examples of how speed rocks in this game:

first round:
fast guy does not interupt slow guy, awww, slow guy cant reach him.
then when he's done doing nothing fast guy moves in and hits him.
second round:
uh oh, fast guy is really close to slow guy now! fast guy beats him
to speed and moves out of range before slow guy can act.
(just repeat 1 and 2 above over and over, stick and move)

Rasputan, my character from Rinaldos tournament.
he's undefeated and has even won without taking damage already.
he has 5 speed. high athletics, and Siberian Bear Crusher.
he has a block to siberian bear crusher combo. making it come out
REAL fast.
he just altrernates blocking and bear crushing every other round and
wins because of his higher speed.

Susan my kabaddi girl:
she has a 5 dex and extendible limbs.
make a character like this and then fight anyone by simply running
away and playing extended jab.
it is hard as hell to get around and she usually wins 1 health point
at a time.
let the slower characters move up to you to hit you. then when you
confirm they are finished with movement phase interupt and run away
so they cant follow. jab them. the 5 dex jab is too fast for most
characters to hit your limb.

M

--- In streetfighter@y..., Kim Foster <nexus@q...> wrote:
> Interesting, In my limited play experience, the slow tough guys
were an
> advantage over the Speed guys. There's no way to really "evade" in
Streetfighter
> (Aside from a few speical manuvers) so unless you costantly use
Knockdown
> manuvers, that big, slow but extremely powerful blow is coming and
its going
> to hurt. The biggest disadvantage to the grapplers tended to be they
> couldn't acutally "grapple" anyone, since grabs were generally slow
and the
> speed guy could always move out of range.

---

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com.

anyone have the current link to Chris Hoffman's page?

the rom image is @:

http://www.classicgaming.com/vault/roms/cpcroms.StreetFighter10534.sht
ml

you need an Amstrad CPC emulator (the system it was on) availiable
here:
http://www.classicgaming.com/vault/cpcemu.shtml

if anyone knows where I can find the turbografix 16 rom please tell.
I think it was a better converion of sf1 (closer to arcade)

Holy poop dude.

Deep breath.



Now.

Let's see.


Oh yes.

I fear change.



Have you implemented anything that anyone else has brought up?

Does it matter?

Does that make you resistant to change as well?


"Stupid" <---- your word, not mine.

kim,
you wait out of range till the slower guy hits nothingness.
(dont interupt)
then move in and hit him.
(make sure you wait till he says hes done with his movement and
atatck phase)

next turn interupt and move out of range.
(make sure to interupt after he's done with movement so he cant chase
you)

repeat. over and over.

thats how you play the speed game.

Matt

--- In streetfighter@y..., Kim Foster <nexus@q...> wrote:
.
>
> But once he does interupt the attack and attack on his own, he's
stuck
> there. He can't move anymore. Assuming his kick or punch didn't
Dizzy,
> knockdown or knockout his opponent. That blow is still coming. Only
certain
> manuvers like Backflip Kick allow you to move after attacking.
> >

--- In streetfighter@y..., "mean_liar" <mean_liar@h...> wrote:

> Have you implemented anything that anyone else has brought up?

yes

> Does it matter?

no

> Does that make you resistant to change as well?

What i refered to there was not whether or not it was implemented but
whether it was even accepted as a valid idea.

>
> "Stupid" <---- your word, not mine.

my word, your implication

sorry for the double post about using speed.
there was like, a half a day lag going through so i re-sent.