> It was my impression that Juli's real name was Julia and that

she

> was his fiancee,

Thunder Hawk's ending:

T. Hawk: "The demons are gone... Now, Julia... Let's go home..."
Juli: "Ugh... ah... Aaaahhhh... Bison... Sir... Bison..."
T. Hawk: "Julia..."
T. Hawk: "However long it may take, I promise that I will save you."

Ok! Until here she could be his fiancee, but read the following lines:

T. Hawk: "Like myself, sacred blood must be running through your
body..."

That's why I think that they are brother and sister, but I could be
wrong... who knows?

> meaning that the Psycho Squad are not clones per se, but
> were kidnapped by that pedophile Bison and were injected with his
> DNA and brainwashed to form a harem of sorts.

Well it can be thatthe Psycho Squad could be clones of Bison, Cammy
and Juli

Juli's ending:

Cammy: "I'm the only one... who can activate the Psycho Drive now..."
(NOTE: Cammy didn't lose her memory in Juli's ending)
Cammy: "And... Only one can survive..."
Cammy: "You will survive... and live..."

So I could understand that when Bison died, Juni and the other clones
died as well, with the exception of Juli and Cammy. It's possible
that
Cammy isn't Bison's completely clone.

> Also, his death was supposed to cause Juli and Juni's death but in
>

their endings, they fought their programming and overcame it, so they
survived. And in T. Hwak's ending, he takes Juli(a) back to Mexico,
so if she had died, that would be pretty gross (and smelly, too).

> Also, Cammy saved the other clones by freeing them from the Psycho

Drive.

Each ending could be a "universe" in the SF universe.

> M. Bison and Rose, hm..., at first it seemed that they were

students

> together learning Ler Drit, then I was told that she was his
> student, he was her student, they were brother and sister, she was

a

> clone, etc., but I think the truth is that they were students of

Ler

> Drit together and they were romantically involved while they were
> training until his went to the "Dark Side". She was then sent to
> either bring him back (which was before SF1), or to kill him (Alpha
>1-3).

Bison was teaching Rose Ler Drit, but when she realised that this was
a evil power, she decides to leave him. It's possibly that someone
else has sent he to deal with Bison (Alpha 1 storyline). But WHO.

WHY CAPCOM CANNOT MAKE STORIES WITHOUT SO MANY
ERRORS/MISTAKES/COMPLICATIONS ETC????

VEGA

I think Benny the Jet's best fight work was as an evil hitman in gross
point blank. If you watch Jackie Chan's older movies, he has great
technique, and I would say Jet Li is good, but he is not at the level Chuck
Norris is. Chuck Norris competed during the golden age of Karate with
people like Bill "superfoot" Wallace and Joe Lewis were in their prime. He
also had a chance to train with Bruce Lee on the set of Return of the
Dragon. I am not meaning to say Jet Li is not a great martial artist. He is
great at forms and technique, but he never was, or will be a full contact
fighter, and he does not have the extensive experience of someone like
Chuck Norris.

I think if you want to look for a good place for world warrior class
duelists, look at Samurai Showdown. The moves in that game are much more
suited to a street fighter environment than soul caliber. I think
compairing The fighters in soul caliber to street fighter characters (style
wise) is like compairing Street Fighter to Tekken. Yes they are both
fighting games, but that is about where the similairities end. The vast
majority of Tekken moves can actually be done in real life, and the
fighters, although quite technical, wouldn't have any techniques above a 4
on the street fighter chart. There are a few flashy and/or impressive moves
in Tekken and Coul caliber, but they are not much compaired to street
fighter. Do you think Taki would have a chance against Ibuki? I don't think
so, Ibuki appears to be faster (her kicks are MUCH faster), and most of her
moves requrie things just plain not humanly possible. Another good example
would be Mitsurugi vs Hoah Marou. Yes, they both use Katanas, but although
mitsurugi has a good array of basic moves, he cannot create tornados with
his sword. I'm not saying the Soul Caliber fighters aren't good, but read
the description for rank 6, I say they should be somewhere in the area of
rank 6 duelists, no more than that. They do have a lot of combos and some
cool moves, but they are not in the same class as the Samurai showdown
fighters. . . . .

Did everyone hear? they are coming out with a new game SNK vs capcom, looks
like king of fighters vs street fighter, looks GREAT

gee, I seem to recall making the same argument for Bruce Lee and other
famous 'real world' fighters not being World Warriors and everyone
thought I was nuts...

oh well. :)

-----Original Message-----
From: brian fish [mailto:fishbn@...]
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2000 2:01 PM
To: streetfighter@egroups.com
Subject: Re: [streetfighter] Soul Blade, Calibur


I think if you want to look for a good place for world warrior class
duelists, look at Samurai Showdown. The moves in that game are much more
suited to a street fighter environment than soul caliber. I think
compairing The fighters in soul caliber to street fighter characters
(style
wise) is like compairing Street Fighter to Tekken. Yes they are both
fighting games, but that is about where the similairities end. The vast
majority of Tekken moves can actually be done in real life, and the
fighters, although quite technical, wouldn't have any techniques above a
4
on the street fighter chart. There are a few flashy and/or impressive
moves
in Tekken and Coul caliber, but they are not much compaired to street
fighter. Do you think Taki would have a chance against Ibuki? I don't
think
so, Ibuki appears to be faster (her kicks are MUCH faster), and most of
her
moves requrie things just plain not humanly possible. Another good
example
would be Mitsurugi vs Hoah Marou. Yes, they both use Katanas, but
although
mitsurugi has a good array of basic moves, he cannot create tornados
with
his sword. I'm not saying the Soul Caliber fighters aren't good, but
read
the description for rank 6, I say they should be somewhere in the area
of
rank 6 duelists, no more than that. They do have a lot of combos and
some
cool moves, but they are not in the same class as the Samurai showdown
fighters. . . . .


------------------------------------------------------------------------
How about a flat, no-fee long distance rate of 6.7¢ per min. -
or less? Join beMANY! Our huge buying group gives you rates which
fall monthly, plus an extra $60 in FREE calls!
http://click.egroups.com/1/3820/6/_/17512/_/958154682/
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Actually, I believe what he means by "sacred blood" is -not- a reference to
the same blood such as a brother and sister would have, instead it means
that she has the blood of Indians/Native Americans. If you have doubts
because of how pale her skin is, I'm a great example of this...I have plenty
of Native American blood in me, but if you were ever to see me walking down
the street, you would never think I was anything more then just another
white guy.

>
>> It was my impression that Juli's real name was Julia and that
>she
>> was his fiancee,
>
>Thunder Hawk's ending:
>
>T. Hawk: "The demons are gone... Now, Julia... Let's go home..."
>Juli: "Ugh... ah... Aaaahhhh... Bison... Sir... Bison..."
>T. Hawk: "Julia..."
>T. Hawk: "However long it may take, I promise that I will save you."
>
>Ok! Until here she could be his fiancee, but read the following lines:
>
>T. Hawk: "Like myself, sacred blood must be running through your
>body..."
>
>That's why I think that they are brother and sister, but I could be
>wrong... who knows?
>
>> meaning that the Psycho Squad are not clones per se, but
>> were kidnapped by that pedophile Bison and were injected with his
>> DNA and brainwashed to form a harem of sorts.
>
>Well it can be thatthe Psycho Squad could be clones of Bison, Cammy
>and Juli
>
>Juli's ending:
>
>Cammy: "I'm the only one... who can activate the Psycho Drive now..."
>(NOTE: Cammy didn't lose her memory in Juli's ending)
>Cammy: "And... Only one can survive..."
>Cammy: "You will survive... and live..."
>
>So I could understand that when Bison died, Juni and the other clones
>died as well, with the exception of Juli and Cammy. It's possible
>that
>Cammy isn't Bison's completely clone.
>
>> Also, his death was supposed to cause Juli and Juni's death but in
>>
>their endings, they fought their programming and overcame it, so they
>survived. And in T. Hwak's ending, he takes Juli(a) back to Mexico,
>so if she had died, that would be pretty gross (and smelly, too).
>> Also, Cammy saved the other clones by freeing them from the Psycho
>Drive.
>
>Each ending could be a "universe" in the SF universe.
>
>> M. Bison and Rose, hm..., at first it seemed that they were
>students
>> together learning Ler Drit, then I was told that she was his
>> student, he was her student, they were brother and sister, she was
>a
>> clone, etc., but I think the truth is that they were students of
>Ler
>> Drit together and they were romantically involved while they were
>> training until his went to the "Dark Side". She was then sent to
>> either bring him back (which was before SF1), or to kill him (Alpha
>>1-3).
>
>Bison was teaching Rose Ler Drit, but when she realised that this was
>a evil power, she decides to leave him. It's possibly that someone
>else has sent he to deal with Bison (Alpha 1 storyline). But WHO.
>
>WHY CAPCOM CANNOT MAKE STORIES WITHOUT SO MANY
>ERRORS/MISTAKES/COMPLICATIONS ETC????
>
>VEGA
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Would you like to save big on your phone bill -- and keep on saving
>more each month? Join beMANY! Our huge buying group gives you Long Distance
>rates which fall monthly, plus an extra $60 in FREE calls!
>http://click.egroups.com/1/2567/6/_/17512/_/958150970/
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>

This, I find to be one of the more explainable things...take a look at the
Street Fighter II Animated Movie. At the end, Ryu and Ken go together to
make one hell of a Hadoken, which causes Bison to blow up (well...at least
close enough)...
But just before the credits roll, as Ryu is walking along the road, a semi
shows up to try and run him down...driven by teh once-thought to be dead
Bison.
This may not be what Capcom had planned, but it makes the most sense to me.

>> Another question that I have is that if Alpha 3 preceeded 2, then
>> how> did > Bison die in every ending of Alpha 3 then show up ready to
>rumble in > 2?

I agree with you, most of the world warriors have superhuman stats, and/or
techniques, and I just dont see ANYONE in the real world who could stand up
to them, not even close. . . .

>gee, I seem to recall making the same argument for Bruce Lee and other
>famous 'real world' fighters not being World Warriors and everyone
>thought I was nuts...
>
>oh well. :)

On Fri, 12 May 2000 14:00:46 -0400 brian fish <fishbn@...>
writes:

> I think if you want to look for a good place for world warrior class
> duelists, look at Samurai Showdown. The moves in that game are much
> more
> suited to a street fighter environment than soul caliber.

I kind of think the big difference we're seeing here is how a 3d game
looks different than a 2d game. Also, the Namco games have so many
moves/combos that it becomes hard to remember them.

Would Taki have a chance against Ibuki? I think so, but unless we see a
detailed readout of their combat data, I think it would be hard for us to
really compare the difference between them (the games just both handle so
darn differently).

Taki's fly into the air and dive down in a stream of burning light move
from SC is as impressive as anything as I've seen in SF.

I don't really remember seeing Ibuki in a game before (except Pocket
Fighters), but I have a feeling she'll be my favorite character when I
finally get SFIII (holding out for 3rd Strike).

Tony

On Fri, 12 May 2000 00:41:05 -0400 brian fish <fishbn@...>
writes:

> Seung Mina with no pole vault?? Heresy, she was one of my favorite

She was my favorite in the first game, but other favorites arose in the
Soul Calibur sequel. I was disappointed they removed Mina's Tower/sky
chopping combo.

When I port characters myself, I tend to make them on a level that the
PCs could actually fight them. I'd actually prefer that the World
Warriors weren't so powerful so they could interact with the characters
more without unbalancing everything. I wonder if anyone ever figured how
much Experience the World Warriors were built with (500 maybe??).

Tony

They were built with a WHOLE BUNCH. I think my character has like 300 or
so, and I'm no quite close to their level (DJ KILLED me, not literally or
course). considering most world warriors have stats and/or techniques at
5+, it's CRAZY to think how much that costs. 16 points just to go from 4 to
5 in a stat, 12 to go from 4 to 5 in a technique.Most of them have at least
1 superhuman stat, going from 5-6 costs 30 exp. It gets VERY VERY
expensive. . . . .

Taki's fly through the air is the exception, not the rule. Most of the
moves of soul caliber hit either once or twice, there are no lightning leg,
hundred hand slap, or hyper fist like moves, there are no moves comparabile
to moves that cost 4 or 5 points in street fighter. Taki's flying through
the air looks like a more acrobatic either cannon drill or air smash, MAYBE
the diving hawk, but I would doubt it. They just wouldn't be world warrior
class. I think if any of them got into a fight with the samurai showdown
characters, they would be toast FAST.

--- Wayne French <gero24@...> wrote:

> I run my streetfighter games with an alternate heath
> and damge system
> so i can easily use any White Wolf threat.
>
> 1. players have to roll to attack, usually Dex(for
> punch, kick,
> athletcs, weapons, etc attacks), Str(for grabs), or
> Wits(for Focus
> maneuvers) + Tech. vs Target # of opponents
> Dex+2(for punch, kick,
> athletcs, weapons, etc attacks), Str+2(for grabs),
> Wits+(for Focus
> maneuvers)

Interesting...

> 2. "Tech Hits" ever 2 succeses needed to hit the
> character attacking
> (PC or NPC) gains 1 additional damage dice to roll.
> This is to show
> that accuracy helps.

It sounds like what you're saying is, is that for
every 2 successes you score, you get an additional die
of damage. Right?

> 3. Damage is Attribute + Manuever modifier (this
> tends to drag the
> fights out like in the game). To comprimise low
> damage I use "Tech
> Hits" rule

Possible, but it still takes technique to deliver a
strike where it'll do the most good. And some Focus
maneuvers have special effects based on the value of
the Technique.

> 4. to soak damage streetfighters are hardy people
> they still subtract
> thier stamina attribute from the total possible dame
> they could have
> recieved, not including Tech Hit dice. the attacker
> has to roll their
> remaining dice + any possible tech hit dice vs
> target # of Stamina+2
> (vs. non-focus) or Wits+1(vs focus) to inflict
> damage. Dizzy effect
> still work normal.

So, even though a fighter has a MONSTER Stamina, a
well-placed kick can down them. (The infamous
"Nutcracker" Effect.)

> 5. Health can be bout with freebie points and
> experience but a
> character starts with their Stamina+2 x2 in health.
> but to add some
> realism, I use the white wolf health chart so the
> PC's & NPC's have
> penalties the more they get hurt. characters still
> can take both
> blunt and aggravated damage, it heals at the rate of
> either Blunt 1
> Squre a hour Aggravated 1 Square a day

So an average human, with a Stamina of 2, has 2
Bruised boxes, and one of all the others... Only
problem I see is the rare characters with a Stamina of
1 (small children, old folks, etc.) Perhaps 8 boxes
should be an absolute minimum?

> Bought Health goes in Vertically to even out the
> chart.
>
> Ex: Steve the brawler has 16 health this is what his
> health chart
> would look like this befor the round house from
> Fred:
>
> BRUISED [][][] No Penalties
> HURT [][] -1 Dice, +1 all Target #
> penalty
> INJURED [][] -2 Dice, +2 all Target #
> penalty
> WOUNDED [][] -3 Dice, +3 all Target #
> penalty
> MAULED [][] -4 Dice, +4 all Target #
> penalty
> CRIPPLED [][] -5 Dice, +5 all Target #
> penalty
> INCAPACITATED [] KO'd
>
> Like this after
> BRUISED [/][/][/] No Penalties
> HURT [/][] -1 Dice, +1 all Target #
> penalty
> INJURED [][] -2 Dice, +2 all Target #
> penalty
> WOUNDED [][] -3 Dice, +3 all Target #
> penalty
> MAULED [][] -4 Dice, +4 all Target #
> penalty
> CRIPPLED [][] -5 Dice, +5 all Target #
> penalty
> INCAPACITATED [] KO'd
>
> ex: Steve now has a 1 dice pool penalty for all
> actions(attacking,
> inflicting damage, moving, soaking damage, etc) and
> he has a +1
> target # penalty when try to perform an action like
> attacking.
>
> when you have penalties(like real life) when ya hurt
> ya tend to be a
> smarter fighter and not try to 'just trade blows'
> til one of you are
> KO'd.
>
> with the following health chart the damage is marked
> off horizontally
> first starting with BRUISED squares going to the
> right, when a
> catagory is filled they are now penalized by the
> next level of Wound
> level.
>
>

**************************************************************

> BRUISED [][][][][][][] No Penalties
> HURT [][][][][][] -1 Dice, +1 all Target
> # penalty
> INJURED [][][][][] -2 Dice, +2 all Target
> # penalty
> WOUNDED [][][][] -3 Dice, +3 all Target
> # penalty
> MAULED [][][] -4 Dice, +4 all Target
> # penalty
> CRIPPLED [][] -5 Dice, +5 all Target
> # penalty
> INCAPACITATED [] KO'd
>

*******************************************************

It looks like you've set a max number of boxes at each
level, for a total "Health" value of 28. Hmmm...

> using these rules my games run quite realistically,
> and fast once you
> get the basic game mechanics down.
>
> the players have fiught both vampires, and survived
> a nasty Garou
> attack, just because the the sytem mixes well with
> other white wolf
> stuff does not mean i reccomend its, actually i like
> keeping them
> seperate. But i use the same system for my white
> wolf games it makes
> them last just a bit longer and adds a bit more
> realism to a quite
> realistic game
>
> Any comments?

All in all, a viable variant system to use for people
who want to mix Street Fighter with White Wolf's other
game systems. I may use it in my next chronicle.

Josh

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com/

Okay, as some of you have probably noticed, I am a Star Wars fan.

And now they've casted Hayden Christensen as Anakin Skywalker for Episode
II. You can see the full story, as well as and image showing Jake Lloyd,
Christensen, and Sebastian Shaw in the three stages of Anakin's life at
http://www.starwars.com/episode-ii/news/2000/19/news4b.html

Just thought that I would let everyone know in case there were other Star
Wars fans out there. Sorry if this bothered anyone.

well Josh,
it has been a long hard road to get the mechanics to balance in both
systems. But i was most happy with the way it prolongs the fight(not
to annoying levels though) like in the game

no i belive that some one was talking about killer combo's earlier?

try this one

A character with a 5 Dex, 5 Str, & 5 athletics and Light Feet maneuver
performs: Speed of the Mongoose -> Tumbling Attack(Dizzy)

and chooses to speed a point of Willpower to activate his Light Feet
maneuver.

lets see thats gonna make that combo
Cost: 2 Willpower 1 Chi
Speed: -1
Damage: 9
Move: 14

that means it will hit 14 times at 9 damage a piece, scary thought
huh?
[now with my comabt rules it would only be 4 damage per hit, but the
Tech-Hit could be a deciding advantage]

Tumbling Attack
Prerequisites: Athletics ***, Backflip
The fighter can propel herself forward into a series
of tumbling maneuvers combined with punches or kicks
that will knock most opponents out of her way. The
Tumbling Attack can hit an unsuspecting opponent several
times if it is timed properly.
System: Use the modifiers below. Like a Hurricane Kick,
the Tumbling Attack has simultaneous movement and damage
tests each time the attacker moves a hex. Whenever the
fighter tumbles into the same hex as her opponent, she
rolls for damage and automatically pushes her opponent
back one hex. She can continue tumbling into her opponent,
pushing him back and damaging him once for each hex, up
to the fighter's full Move. The fighter will push her
opponent back and make damage tests until she has moved
her full distance. The Tumbling Attack is a Crouching
Maneuver. The attacker moves in a straight line.
Cost: 1 Willpower
Speed: -1
Damage: -1
Move: +0

Light Feet
Prerequisites: Athletics ****, Jump
The fighter is adept at leaping and moving quickly -
moreso than other fighters. The fighter's nimble feet
enable her to cover greater distances than most other
fighters in the Arena.
System: This Special Maneuver is not played as a card.
Instead, +1 Move is added to all of the fighter's Maneuvers.
The fighter can also elect to spend one Willpower point
during a fight to move an additional three hexes as part
of an action instead of gaining the one hex bonus that
this maneuver usually adds.
Cost: See Above
Speed: See Above
Damage: None
Move: See Above


Speed of the Mongoose
Prerequisites: Focus ***
The Ninja must concentrate on the form of her body's
Chi and the method in which she wishes to tap it.
By forming the intricate and secret hand sign of the
Mongoose, she may draw on its power to increase her
natural speed.
System: The Ninja may only move this combat turn and
cannot block or attack. The following turn she may
choose to add +4 to her Speed or +6 to her Move
(the latter must be in a straight line).
Cost: 1 Chi
Speed: +2
Damage: None
Move: -2


i remember a meaner one but it elude me right now

something to do with Block -> Monkey Grab Punch -> Tumbling Attack

and on tumbling attack use Light feet

it is a Capoeira character. I allow player to by maneuvers if they
use twice the higherst cost and double the learning time.
Exm: Sanbo normally cannot Learn Dragon Punch, But what if he is
learning from a master who is wiling to teach this to him

its like 10 power points and 6 to 12 months of training

but then the Sanbo guy can use Dragon Punch

anyways thats how the Capoeira character got the Speed Of the
Mongoose maneuver

i will stop rambling now

Gero-Out

That's not so bad, see the thing about speed of the mongoose is that you
have to just stand there like an idiot and can't move or block while you're
charging up, that could be fatal, especially if you were fighting someone
with lightfeet and the scissor kick. I like block combos a lot more because
my character blocks a lot, and then once you block anything, your next move
is unblockable by dex 5 characters w/o musical accompaniement (Did I
mention I had that?). Another thing with tumbling attack, cartwheel kick
and stuff like that you have to remember is that they are straight line
only. My character has musical accompaniement and lightfeet, so I can move
two hexes with blocks. You just slide over to the side two hexes and even
Vega doing the tumbling attack can't hurt you. Not that I think I could
beat Vega yet, it's just an example. . . . .

Oh, and any character of any style can pick up any maneuver, all they have
to do is switch to Jeet Kune Do, and then I think they pay the highest
power point cost +1 for maneuvers that don't have any cost. The Sambo
stylist in question could switch to Jeet Kune Do, still be able to learn
his sambo maneuvers for normal cost, but then have access to the full array
of Jeet Kune Do maneuvers as well, including the Dragon Punch for a mere 5
power points. . . . . . .

| ...which is listed on the Tournament Honor Awards chart as a penalty.
| "Striking someone held by someone else".

I'd like to see this said chart. Where is it?

_______________________________________________________
Fred Chagnon "Only in RPGs does fighting
seagull@... make you a better person."
seagull@... - Peter Olafson

| No, I mean it's like striking someone you hold. It is possible for them to
| break out, they just have to make a strength roll. They are not dizzy,
they
| are not incapable of functioning, they just have to make a strength roll
to
| break the ice. This is more in the spirit of a sustained hold than it is
| striking a dizzied opponent. You hit someone with ice blast so you can hit
| them with something else afterward, that is the entire point of the move,
| why would you penalize someone for using the move as it was designed?

There are lots of moves that are purely dishonourable. Don't you lose honor
for using the Ear Pop or Heart Punch?

_______________________________________________________
Fred Chagnon "Only in RPGs does fighting
seagull@... make you a better person."
seagull@... - Peter Olafson

Joseph Scott Pittman wrote:

>Cool. I like figuring out where we differ in opinion here and reaching a
>semi-conclusive discussion. GREAT debate on your part, and your arguments
>are just as correct as mine. Just a matter of how you prefer to play the
>game.

It's all good, I just get kinda fired up when I argue, no offense to anyone i've snapped at. This is why I shy away from politics...
twitchboy!


Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com

I heard about it and the Idea is King of Fighters Vs Street Fighter but I don´t
known how line the game will use Snk or Capcom system but I hope for Street
Fighter system.

brian fish wrote:

> Did everyone hear? they are coming out with a new game SNK vs capcom, looks
> like king of fighters vs street fighter, looks GREAT
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Best friends, most artistic, class clown Find 'em here:
> http://click.egroups.com/1/4054/6/_/17512/_/958155828/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ear Pop yes, Hear punch I don´t known but Flying Punch from Ler Drit don´t cause
honor lost too?

Fred Chagnon wrote:

> | No, I mean it's like striking someone you hold. It is possible for them to
> | break out, they just have to make a strength roll. They are not dizzy,
> they
> | are not incapable of functioning, they just have to make a strength roll
> to
> | break the ice. This is more in the spirit of a sustained hold than it is
> | striking a dizzied opponent. You hit someone with ice blast so you can hit
> | them with something else afterward, that is the entire point of the move,
> | why would you penalize someone for using the move as it was designed?
>
> There are lots of moves that are purely dishonourable. Don't you lose honor
> for using the Ear Pop or Heart Punch?
>
> _______________________________________________________
> Fred Chagnon "Only in RPGs does fighting
> seagull@... make you a better person."
> seagull@... - Peter Olafson
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Best friends, most artistic, class clown Find 'em here:
> http://click.egroups.com/1/4054/6/_/17512/_/958230867/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

I mean Heart Punch.

Rinaldo Gambetta wrote:

> Ear Pop yes, Hear punch I don´t known but Flying Punch from Ler Drit don´t cause
> honor lost too?
>
> Fred Chagnon wrote:
>
> > | No, I mean it's like striking someone you hold. It is possible for them to
> > | break out, they just have to make a strength roll. They are not dizzy,
> > they
> > | are not incapable of functioning, they just have to make a strength roll
> > to
> > | break the ice. This is more in the spirit of a sustained hold than it is
> > | striking a dizzied opponent. You hit someone with ice blast so you can hit
> > | them with something else afterward, that is the entire point of the move,
> > | why would you penalize someone for using the move as it was designed?
> >
> > There are lots of moves that are purely dishonourable. Don't you lose honor
> > for using the Ear Pop or Heart Punch?
> >
> > _______________________________________________________
> > Fred Chagnon "Only in RPGs does fighting
> > seagull@... make you a better person."
> > seagull@... - Peter Olafson
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Best friends, most artistic, class clown Find 'em here:
> > http://click.egroups.com/1/4054/6/_/17512/_/958230867/
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Special Offer-Earn 300 Points from MyPoints.com for trying @Backup
> Get automatic protection and access to your important computer files.
> Install today:
> http://click.egroups.com/1/2344/6/_/17512/_/958237752/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think if any of them got into a fight with the samurai

> showdown
> characters, they would be toast FAST.

Well, I highly disagree. The only exception I can think of is that they
can't produce tornados with their swords, but that can be blocked. The
characters' skill as fighters is exceptional. If anything the Soul
Calibur characters have far more maneuvers than the Samurai Showdown
characters, and I see that as an indication of them having more skill.
Versus the Street Fighters if it happened, all those swords vs unarmed
people would likely result in a bloody mess. (Not mentioning that if SC
were realistic, half or more of the characters would be dead after the
first bout but . . .)

And if they made an arcade game vs the two, the winner would all be up to
the player anyway. Of course, half the characters would hardly resemble
their original incarnations just due to the different fighting systems of
the games.

However, I do agree that the Tekken fighters would be cremated by Street
Fighter. But from what I've seen, the characters in many fighting games
seem to be on even turf (except Wargods, everybody is better than those
gods).

Anyhow if someone wants to make other game characters up for the SF RPG,
making them a power level equal to how much you like them tends to work.
To me discussing the power levels of different fighting games is just
conjecture. Everyone could be completely wrong so I don't really think we
should make this into a serious argument.
SNK vs Capcom we'll hopefully find to be pretty well matched. Since
they're doing a vs game, we'll be able to see for ourselves. Wait, I have
the Neogeo pocket game, and they are evenly matched. Fun little game.

Tony

you know, that chart you use to award Honor and Glory after a fight? The
one in the blue chapter. :p

-----Original Message-----
From: Fred Chagnon <seagull@...>
To: streetfighter@egroups.com <streetfighter@egroups.com>
Date: Saturday, May 13, 2000 11:12 AM
Subject: Re: [streetfighter] Honor and Ice Blast.

>| ...which is listed on the Tournament Honor Awards chart as a penalty.
>| "Striking someone held by someone else".
>
>I'd like to see this said chart. Where is it?
>
>_______________________________________________________
>Fred Chagnon "Only in RPGs does fighting
>seagull@... make you a better person."
>seagull@... - Peter Olafson
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Special Offer-Earn 300 Points from MyPoints.com for trying @Backup
>Get automatic protection and access to your important computer files.
>Install today:
>http://click.egroups.com/1/2344/6/_/17512/_/958230714/
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>

Does anyone think backflip should be an abort maneuver?

I let a player do it last night, but told him never again - just this
once - to avoid a yoga flame.
To abort to a jump out of a yoga flame, would one need to roll contested
as if a fireball vs the opponent's roll?
I suppose clearly not (just wanted to see if there were differing
opinions on the list).

Tony

I haven't seen which system they're gonna use, I have seen some of the
righters. I know for sure they're gonna use Ken, Ryu, Blanka, Zangief, Chun
Li, and Guile from capcom, and Kyo, Iori, Benimaru, Mai, and Raiden from
SNK. . . . . .. .

legal!!! alguem que fala portugues nesta lista...
Pelo que vi o jogo vai seguir o estilo street fighter, mas com alguns
incrementos de king's (como estourar a barra de especial...).



sexyboy(�^.^�)
*fade away(oasis)
Super11 - O e-mail do Brasil -- http://www.Super11.net
Fa�a j� o seu. � gratuito!!!

On Fri, 12 May 2000 23:40:16 -0400 brian fish <fishbn@...>
writes:

> Oh, and any character of any style can pick up any maneuver, ll they >

have> to do is switch to Jeet Kune Do,

Are there concrete rules for switching styles? The optional "Style"
background is the only thing I've seen convering the subject (which I
think is a neat idea).

Tony

The following streetfighter poll is now closed. Here are the
final results:


POLL QUESTION: OFFICAL MAILING LIST VOTE FOR RULE
CLARIFICATION TO BE FOUND IN STREET
FIGHTER REVISED: CHAMPIONSHIP EDITION -
What happens if you Abort to another
Maneuver and the attacker still has a
faster Speed? Does the character lose
the willpower/chi for a special block
Maneuver he aborted to in this case?


CHOICES AND RESULTS
- The defender tried to use the Special Block Maneuver, and since it is difficult to detirmine if the Maneuver was "successful" in this case, he would lose the willpower/chi because of the attempt., 2 votes, 20.00%
- The character would not lose the willpower/chi spent on the Maneuver, only the Willpower for the Abort, since the Maneuver was not "successful" against the attacker. However, out-of-tournament cases should be handeled by the Storyteller, because Maneuvers could still be successful in cases of multiple opponents (where the first attacker might have a higher Speed but the Block Maneuver works against th second, for example)., 8 votes, 80.00%

INDIVIDUAL VOTES
- The defender tried to use the Special Block Maneuver, and since it is difficult to detirmine if the Maneuver was "successful" in this case, he would lose the willpower/chi because of the attempt.
- yelloped@...
- fishbn@...
- The character would not lose the willpower/chi spent on the Maneuver, only the Willpower for the Abort, since the Maneuver was not "successful" against the attacker. However, out-of-tournament cases should be handeled by the Storyteller, because Maneuvers could still be successful in cases of multiple opponents (where the first attacker might have a higher Speed but the Block Maneuver works against th second, for example).
- shinzite@...
- arkondloc@...
- azathoth05@...
- staredown@...
- devernatter@...
- anton_figueroa@...
- joespitt@...
- cybermage@...


For more information about this group, please visit
http://www.egroups.com/group/streetfighter

For help with eGroups, please visit
http://www.egroups.com/help

The following streetfighter poll is now closed. Here are the
final results:


POLL QUESTION: OFFICAL RULE CLARIFICATION FOR STREET
FIGHTER REVISED:
What Aerial Maneuvers can be used to
jump projectiles?

CHOICES AND RESULTS
- Only Aerial maneuvers that descibe the ability to jump projectiles in their description., 8 votes, 88.89%
- All Maneuvers described as aerial can be used to avoid projectiles., 1 votes, 11.11%



For more information about this group, please visit
http://www.egroups.com/group/streetfighter

For help with eGroups, please visit
http://www.egroups.com/help

The following streetfighter poll is now closed. Here are the
final results:


POLL QUESTION: OFFICAL RULE CLARIFICATION FOR STREET
FIGHTER: REVISED
Can characters Abort to a Crouching
Block?


CHOICES AND RESULTS
- No. Although there is no Crouching Block Maneuver, Crouching is a special Maneuver component that must be within the Maneuver's description., 7 votes, 77.78%
- Yes. Although a character cannot chose a Crouching Block as a Maneuver, he may Abort to a Crouching Block from a regular Block Maneuver or any other Maneuver. The 1 Willpower cost to Abort covers the ability to react to Aerial attacks and the like by Crouching., 2 votes, 22.22%



For more information about this group, please visit
http://www.egroups.com/group/streetfighter

For help with eGroups, please visit
http://www.egroups.com/help

Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the streetfighter
group:


OFFICAL RULE CLARIFICATION FOR THE
STREET FIGHTER REVISED web-page:
How do you handle when a character is
blinded? (the top two answers in this
poll will be voted on again)

o A. The blinded characters rolls for attacks based on sight (nearly all of them) are increased in Difficulty to 8, unless he has blindfighting at 1-3 (in which case his difficulty is 7). If the character has a blindfighting skill of 4 or above, he has no increase in difficulty.
o B.If a character's vision is impaired by means of a power, device or natural darkness, his actions become more difficult. His Perception and his Blind Fighting Ability (if any) now become very important to his chances to be successful in any action. Although it may make more sense for a character to use Wits if he is totaly blinded, Perception is used for game balance due to the fact that Wits is already such an important score when detimining inititive during combat.
o C. As B, but use Wits instead of Perception for the rolls.
o D. Increase the blinded character's difficulty for rolls that would require sight by the number of successes the opponent gained on the attack, minus his level of Blindfighting, to a minimum of his original difficulty.


To vote, please visit the following web page:

http://www.egroups.com/polls/streetfighter

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the eGroups
web site listed above.

Thanks!

Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the streetfighter
group:


How do you handle blinffighting?

o A. The blinded characters rolls for attacks based on sight (nearly all of them) are increased in Difficulty to 8, unless he has blindfighting at 1-3 (in which case his difficulty is 7). If the character has a blindfighting skill of 4 or above, he has no increase in difficulty.
o B.If a character's vision is impaired by means of a power, device or natural darkness, his actions become more difficult. His Perception and his Blind Fighting Ability (if any) now become very important to his chances to be successful in any action.First, the blinded fighter must locate his target, in the case that the fighter wishes to make an attack. He does so by making a Perception + Blind Fighting roll, at Difficulty 6. If the character gains no successes, he cannot locate his target and cannot make any combat action except those that do not reqire rolling of the dice (the character may still Block, Move, and even Jump, although he could not use Jump to dodge projectiles, for example).If the character gains one success, he may make an action as described below, but the base number subtacted from is 14 instead of 12. If he scores two successes, the base number is 13. Three or more successes indicates that the character subtacts from the usual base of 12.In general, the difficulty of any action while blind can be found by adding the character's Perception and Blind Fighting Ability, and subtracting this number from 12 (or prehaps 13 or 14 in combat, see above). For example, a character with a Perception of 2 and a Blind Fighting of 1 would have a Difficulty 9 to his actions. (2+1=3. 12-3=9).High levels of Perception and Blind Fighting can make it much easier to fight in the dark, but it cannot make it easier than having vision. The lowest a character's Difficulty can be in total darkness is 6 (standard Difficulty).Of course, the Storyteller can alter the Difficulty of any action based on the situation (a blind character trying to pick out one blue wire from 15 other red ones is in trouble, for example).
o C. As B, but use Wits instead of Perception for the rolls.
o D. Increase the blinded character's difficulty for rolls that would require sight by the number of successes the opponent gained on the attack, minus his level of Blindfighting, to a minimum of his original difficulty.


To vote, please visit the following web page:

http://www.egroups.com/polls/streetfighter

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the eGroups
web site listed above.

Thanks!

The following streetfighter poll is now closed. Here are the
final results:


POLL QUESTION: OFFICAL RULE CLARIFICATION FOR THE
STREET FIGHTER REVISED web-page:
How do you handle when a character is
blinded? (the top two answers in this
poll will be voted on again)

CHOICES AND RESULTS
- A. The blinded characters rolls for attacks based on sight (nearly all of them) are increased in Difficulty to 8, unless he has blindfighting at 1-3 (in which case his difficulty is 7). If the character has a blindfighting skill of 4 or above, he has no increase in difficulty., 0 votes, 0.00%
- B.If a character's vision is impaired by means of a power, device or natural darkness, his actions become more difficult. His Perception and his Blind Fighting Ability (if any) now become very important to his chances to be successful in any action. Although it may make more sense for a character to use Wits if he is totaly blinded, Perception is used for game balance due to the fact that Wits is already such an important score when detimining inititive during combat., 0 votes, 0.00%
- C. As B, but use Wits instead of Perception for the rolls., 0 votes, 0.00%
- D. Increase the blinded character's difficulty for rolls that would require sight by the number of successes the opponent gained on the attack, minus his level of Blindfighting, to a minimum of his original difficulty., 0 votes, 0.00%



For more information about this group, please visit
http://www.egroups.com/group/streetfighter

For help with eGroups, please visit
http://www.egroups.com/help

I think this a abort manuver and Esquives and Drunken Monkey Roll too but
this under discution.

Knight of the Black Rose wrote:

> Does anyone think backflip should be an abort maneuver?
>
> I let a player do it last night, but told him never again - just this
> once - to avoid a yoga flame.
> To abort to a jump out of a yoga flame, would one need to roll contested
> as if a fireball vs the opponent's roll?
> I suppose clearly not (just wanted to see if there were differing
> opinions on the list).
>
> Tony
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Win an iMac computer from The Apples in stereo and other
> FREE great stuff at RollingStone.com!
> http://click.egroups.com/1/4023/6/_/17512/_/958245466/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

Where did you see the "Style Background?"

joespitt

-----Original Message-----
From: Knight of the Black Rose <anton_figueroa@...>
To: streetfighter@egroups.com <streetfighter@egroups.com>
Date: Saturday, May 13, 2000 3:23 PM
Subject: Re: [streetfighter] wisdom . . any comments?

>On Fri, 12 May 2000 23:40:16 -0400 brian fish <fishbn@...>
>writes:
>> Oh, and any character of any style can pick up any maneuver, ll they >
>have> to do is switch to Jeet Kune Do,
>
>Are there concrete rules for switching styles? The optional "Style"
>background is the only thing I've seen convering the subject (which I
>think is a neat idea).
>
>Tony
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Make new friends, find the old at Classmates.com:
>http://click.egroups.com/1/4052/6/_/17512/_/958256631/
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>

I had to re-write the blindfighting questions, sorry about any confusion
from the two different votes (I concluded the incomplete one). I had a hard
time typing today, sorry about the typos.

joespitt

-----Original Message-----
From: streetfighter@egroups.com <streetfighter@egroups.com>
To: streetfighter@egroups.com <streetfighter@egroups.com>
Date: Saturday, May 13, 2000 3:46 PM
Subject: [streetfighter] New poll for streetfighter

>
>Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the streetfighter
>group:
>
>
>How do you handle blinffighting?
>
> o A. The blinded characters rolls for attacks based on sight (nearly all

of them) are increased in Difficulty to 8, unless he has blindfighting at
1-3 (in which case his difficulty is 7). If the character has a
blindfighting skill of 4 or above, he has no increase in difficulty.

> o B.If a character's vision is impaired by means of a power, device or

natural darkness, his actions become more difficult. His Perception and his
Blind Fighting Ability (if any) now become very important to his chances to
be successful in any action.First, the blinded fighter must locate his
target, in the case that the fighter wishes to make an attack. He does so by
making a Perception + Blind Fighting roll, at Difficulty 6. If the character
gains no successes, he cannot locate his target and cannot make any combat
action except those that do not reqire rolling of the dice (the character
may still Block, Move, and even Jump, although he could not use Jump to
dodge projectiles, for example).If the character gains one success, he may
make an action as described below, but the base number subtacted from is 14
instead of 12. If he scores two successes, the base number is 13. Three or
more successes indicates that the character subtacts from the usual base of
12.In general, the difficulty of any action while blind can be found by
adding the character's Perception and Blind Fighting Ability, and
subtracting this number from 12 (or prehaps 13 or 14 in combat, see above).
For example, a character with a Perception of 2 and a Blind Fighting of 1
would have a Difficulty 9 to his actions. (2+1=3. 12-3=9).High levels of
Perception and Blind Fighting can make it much easier to fight in the dark,
but it cannot make it easier than having vision. The lowest a character's
Difficulty can be in total darkness is 6 (standard Difficulty).Of course,
the Storyteller can alter the Difficulty of any action based on the
situation (a blind character trying to pick out one blue wire from 15 other
red ones is in trouble, for example).

> o C. As B, but use Wits instead of Perception for the rolls.
> o D. Increase the blinded character's difficulty for rolls that would

require sight by the number of successes the opponent gained on the attack,
minus his level of Blindfighting, to a minimum of his original difficulty.

>
>
>To vote, please visit the following web page:
>
>http://www.egroups.com/polls/streetfighter
>
>Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
>not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the eGroups
>web site listed above.
>
>Thanks!
>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Great savings and lots more -- beMANY!
>http://click.egroups.com/1/4114/6/_/17512/_/958257986/
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>

Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the streetfighter
group:


OFFICAL QUESTION FOR THE STREET FIGHTER
REVISED WEB PAGE:
Does there need to be a Crouching Block
Maneuver?

o Yes
o No


To vote, please visit the following web page:

http://www.egroups.com/polls/streetfighter

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the eGroups
web site listed above.

Thanks!

Like a boxing fan I note this style for Stf don´t have some manuvers because
they don´t exist but I think about create them:
Left or Right hand: No advantage except if in a campaing the Gm give a litle
advantage if you are a left hand guy against a right hand but I don´t known.

ideas for manuvers I think about other punches but for this moment I just
think in this manuvers. I can acept if someone say I overpower the manuvers.
I don´t known how much cost this manuvers and the Requisites but I acept
sugestions.

Punch: Jaw Punch, Kidneys Punch
Grab: Clinching and many his variants.

Jaw Punch or Knockout Punch: Like the name said the boxer make a powerfull
cross aiming the opponent jaw, I don´t known the biologic effect maybe the
Brain move a litle inside the head but I see many fights end in the first
round with well place Jaw punch.
Requisites: Punch 3
Cost: 1 willpower
Speed: +1
Damage: +5
Movement: None
Special Efect: The Jaw punch can make his target stun but only if the target
fail in stamina test.

Kidneys Punch: A low punch with a destination the Kidneys area isn´t a very
quickly move but this isn´t the idea when the target hit his stamina is 1/2
for soaking purposes except of course if he´s blocking.
Special: When a target is hit by a Kidneys Punch his stamina down 1 point by
punch for 2 turns because the objective is remove the "breath" of opponent,
after 2 turns the stamina return to his normal level.
Requisites: Punch 4 Medicine knownledge with rate 2 at last.
Cost: 1 Willpower
Speed: -2
Damage: +3
Movement: -2

Clinching: The classic boxing manuver of hold the opponent to restore some
breath and to make other stuff anyway, the Clinch is a susteinted hold but
the clinch itself don´t do damage but the variants can do some damage.
Requisites: Grab 3
Cost: None
Speed: +2
Damage: -
Movement: 1

After a well done clinch and of course a win in the strenght test to keep
holding in the next turn the clinch fighter can make some things:
1- The Headbutt Hold - this manuver already exist but you can do this after a
clinch use the same stats of the Headbutt Holding.
2- Stomach Treatment - this manuver already exist but you can do this after a
clinch use the same stats of the Stomach Treatment.
3- Braincracker - this manuver already exist but you can do this after a
clinch use the same stats of the Braincracker.
4- Head Bite - use the stats of a normal headbite.

This cover the "boxing" possible grabs I don´t understand why Stomach
Treatment isn´t a boxing grab too, but I put in the list anyway.

On Sat, 13 May 2000 17:49:15 -0700 "Joseph Scott Pittman"
<joespitt@...> writes:

> Where did you see the "Style Background?"
>

The SF Ultra web page.

Tony

>How do you handle when a character is
>blinded?
>Although it may make more sense for a character to use Wits if he is totaly blinded, Perception is used for game balance due to the fact that Wits is already such an important score when detimining inititive during combat.

I think it actually makes more sense to use Perception. Without vision, you're relying on sounds, vibrations in the floor, odors, etc. to Perceive your opponent. Wits is more about how quickly you react, and Perception involves the senses...

But I use a much simpler system. Roll Perception + Blindfighting (Difficulty 6). This is the maximum number of dice you can roll to attack. You can only attack an opponent who has just attacked you, or who is in the same hex as you are. Finally, you can't abort while blinded. It's not perfect, but I hardly ever use it...

If you're going to do it by adjusting difficulties, though, I'd have it just be Base 11 minus 1 for each dot in Blindfighting so if you don't have Blindfighting you can't hit, and with a 5 it's just like daylight...


Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com

Knight of the Black Rose wrote:

>Does anyone think backflip should be an abort maneuver?

I was just going to ask if it already WAS an Abort Maneuver. I don't have the book it's explained in... It already costs 1 Willpower, so my inclination is that if you use it as an Abort Maneuver, you would pay an ADDITIONAL Willpower...

>To abort to a jump out of a yoga flame, would one need to roll contested as if a fireball vs the opponent's roll?

I doubt it... Yoga Flame is area-effect, not target-based...

What if you wear flame-retardant clothing?
;)


Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com

Okay, who thinks which of the following should be made official abort
maneuvers and please give reasoning for the basis of your answer:
Backflip
Drunken Monkey Roll
Esquives
Any others you may want to discuss

Jeet Kune Do is actually the only style that can be switched to, it is in
the description in contenders. . . .

None of the above should be abort maneuvers, I am of the opinion that if a
maneuver was intended to be an abort maneuver, it would say so in the
description . . . . . .

On Sun, 14 May 2000 00:04:57 EDT azathoth05@... writes:

> Okay, who thinks which of the following should be made official abort
>
> maneuvers and please give reasoning for the basis of your answer:
> Backflip

I say no because it provides total invulnerability which would be too
unbalancing as an abort.

> Drunken Monkey Roll

I don't think so, but the "use the same rules as under jump" in the
description gives a little doubt. I certainly don't think it would be too
unbalancing to allow.

I wouldn't otherwise allow aborting to moves unless a move says Abort in
the description, is the Jump move, or is a Block maneuver.

Tony

On Sun, 14 May 2000 00:35:04 -0400 brian fish <fishbn@...>
writes:

> Jeet Kune Do is actually the only style that can be switched to, it
> is in
> the description in contenders. . . .

Ah, I read that and found it so lacking that I considered it not a
description. I was hoping they'd provide more detail, guidelines, rules,
etc.

It's one of those things that opens up a huge bag of worms (much like the
stupid "special shoes" of savate I heard about). Glad I don't have that
book. Then everyone would want special shoes, gloves, headbands for
headbutting, etc. ^^;; (If you're going to give a style a bonus like
that, I say just say they have a kick bonus because they do it well.)

Tony
(not that I forsee anyone switching styles in my campaign, but at least I
have the inventive backgrounds of the SF Ultra page to use if it
happens...)

You known how the books left to desire in description sector, for example we
don´t known if you can abort for energy deflection for example but everybody
allow the player abort to energy deflection because is a block manuver,
Drunken Monkey Roll works like except is made on the ground rolling but the
avoid Fireball test is the same, the only question by me is move can be a
abort manuver?

brian fish wrote:

> None of the above should be abort maneuvers, I am of the opinion that if a
> maneuver was intended to be an abort maneuver, it would say so in the
> description . . . . . .
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Best friends, most artistic, class clown Find 'em here:
> http://click.egroups.com/1/4054/6/_/17512/_/958279494/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

Actually, they do give another reason for the damage bonus on all savate
kicks, they say in the players guide that savate stylists get the damage
bonus on kicks because their kicks are a directed motion against a small
area as opposed to sweepeing motions against a large area like most asian
kicks.

As for Jeet Kune Do, it is a little lacking, but as it is, it is the only
only style in the game that specifically says you can switch to it.