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Group: streetfighter Message: 453 From: Steve 'Doom Trooper' Karstensen Date: 12/18/1998
Subject: Re: hello...?
Group: streetfighter Message: 454 From: Howard Collins Date: 12/18/1998
Subject: Re: hello...?
Group: streetfighter Message: 455 From: Steve 'Doom Trooper' Karstensen Date: 12/21/1998
Subject: Re: hello...?
Group: streetfighter Message: 456 From: REMO DISCONZI Date: 12/21/1998
Subject: Re: hello...?
Group: streetfighter Message: 457 From: Steve 'Doom Trooper' Karstensen Date: 12/21/1998
Subject: Re: hello...?
Group: streetfighter Message: 458 From: Howard Collins Date: 12/21/1998
Subject: Re: hello...?
Group: streetfighter Message: 459 From: Steve 'Doom Trooper' Karstensen Date: 12/21/1998
Subject: Re: hello...?
Group: streetfighter Message: 460 From: Morgado, Mike Date: 12/21/1998
Subject: Questions and stuff
Group: streetfighter Message: 461 From: Steve 'Doom Trooper' Karstensen Date: 12/21/1998
Subject: Re: Questions and stuff
Group: streetfighter Message: 462 From: Ryan M Rich Date: 12/21/1998
Subject: Re: hello...?
Group: streetfighter Message: 463 From: REMO DISCONZI Date: 12/21/1998
Subject: Re: hello...?
Group: streetfighter Message: 464 From: Micheal Duynhoven Date: 12/21/1998
Subject: Fw: Questions and stuff
Group: streetfighter Message: 465 From: Steve 'Doom Trooper' Karstensen Date: 12/22/1998
Subject: History of the Circuit
Group: streetfighter Message: 466 From: Wayne French Date: 12/22/1998
Subject: Looking for more info
Group: streetfighter Message: 467 From: Steve 'Doom Trooper' Karstensen Date: 12/22/1998
Subject: Re: Looking for more info
Group: streetfighter Message: 468 From: REMO DISCONZI Date: 12/22/1998
Subject: Re: Looking for more info
Group: streetfighter Message: 469 From: Steve 'Doom Trooper' Karstensen Date: 12/22/1998
Subject: Re: Looking for more info
Group: streetfighter Message: 470 From: REMO DISCONZI Date: 12/22/1998
Subject: Re: Looking for more info
Group: streetfighter Message: 471 From: cam1984@hotmail.com Date: 12/22/1998
Subject: "purists"+yun/yang
Group: streetfighter Message: 472 From: Matt M. Date: 12/22/1998
Subject: one
Group: streetfighter Message: 473 From: Matt M. Date: 12/22/1998
Subject: jpg
Group: streetfighter Message: 474 From: EvilTyger@aol.com Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Purists?
Group: streetfighter Message: 475 From: Steve 'Doom Trooper' Karstensen Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Re: "purists"+yun/yang
Group: streetfighter Message: 476 From: REMO DISCONZI Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Re: Purists?
Group: streetfighter Message: 477 From: Steve 'Doom Trooper' Karstensen Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Re: History of the Circuit
Group: streetfighter Message: 478 From: Steve 'Doom Trooper' Karstensen Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Re: Purists?
Group: streetfighter Message: 479 From: Morgado, Mike Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Re: Purists?
Group: streetfighter Message: 480 From: Steve 'Doom Trooper' Karstensen Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Re: Purists?
Group: streetfighter Message: 481 From: Steve 'Doom Trooper' Karstensen Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Kurisumasu
Group: streetfighter Message: 482 From: Nelson, Christopher T Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Re: Purists?
Group: streetfighter Message: 483 From: Steve 'Doom Trooper' Karstensen Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Re: Purists?
Group: streetfighter Message: 484 From: EvilTyger@aol.com Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Re: Purists?
Group: streetfighter Message: 485 From: Micheal Duynhoven Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Re: Purists?
Group: streetfighter Message: 486 From: EvilTyger@aol.com Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Re: Purists?
Group: streetfighter Message: 487 From: Morgado, Mike Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Multiple opponents
Group: streetfighter Message: 488 From: Wayne French Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Re: Purists?
Group: streetfighter Message: 489 From: Wayne French Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Re: Purists?
Group: streetfighter Message: 490 From: Morgado, Mike Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Re: Purists?
Group: streetfighter Message: 491 From: Steve 'Doom Trooper' Karstensen Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Re: Purists?
Group: streetfighter Message: 492 From: Wayne French Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Re: Purists?
Group: streetfighter Message: 493 From: Wayne French Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Re: WoD conversion ; it's ok i guess but check it out it's long
Group: streetfighter Message: 494 From: Steve 'Doom Trooper' Karstensen Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Re: WoD conversion ; it's ok i guess but check it out it's long
Group: streetfighter Message: 495 From: Steve 'Doom Trooper' Karstensen Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Re: Purists?
Group: streetfighter Message: 496 From: Steve 'Doom Trooper' Karstensen Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Re: Purists?
Group: streetfighter Message: 497 From: Steve 'Doom Trooper' Karstensen Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Re: Multiple opponents
Group: streetfighter Message: 498 From: Kristofer Lundstrom Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Merry X-mas!
Group: streetfighter Message: 499 From: Steve 'Doom Trooper' Karstensen Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Re: Multiple opponents
Group: streetfighter Message: 500 From: Wayne French Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Re: Merry X-mas!
Group: streetfighter Message: 501 From: Micheal Duynhoven Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Re: Multiple opponents
Group: streetfighter Message: 502 From: Steve Karstensen Date: 12/24/1998
Subject: Re: Merry X-mas!



Group: streetfighter Message: 453 From: Steve 'Doom Trooper' Karstensen Date: 12/18/1998
Subject: Re: hello...?
Howard Collins wrote:
>
> "What's this... Pro Force?"
>

you mean you don't know?!

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Group: streetfighter Message: 454 From: Howard Collins Date: 12/18/1998
Subject: Re: hello...?
Steve 'Doom Trooper' Karstensen wrote:

> Howard Collins wrote:
> >
> > "What's this... Pro Force?"
> >
>
> you mean you don't know?!

"Nope."

(Silly inside jokes like this are what make Street Fighter enjoyable to me.
8P)

--
http://www.accessgate.net/howard for nonsensical rants about things nobody
cares about



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Group: streetfighter Message: 455 From: Steve 'Doom Trooper' Karstensen Date: 12/21/1998
Subject: Re: hello...?
Howard Collins wrote:
>
> kristofer lundstrom wrote:
>
> > - Quit and start again before your characters reach World Warrior rank.
> > The only reason for this is that the World Warriors suck and they
> > shouldn't. Or as the Storyteller: exaggerate the WW's powers. Make sure
> > your players realise just how good the WWs really are. Hint that the
> > traits printed in the sourcebooks show the WWs a few years back.
>

apart from one or two of them, like Zangief, the World Warriors are
*quite* capable of kicking ass. Nobody will be able to *touch* Vega or
Chun Li with those Dex 7 Athletics 7 maneuvers. And Chun Li's 45-die
lightning leg attack? on 7 after a short kick? good Lord.

however, I have a bit of background story that explains why the WWs
aren't as "good" as they could be; something about a 'new generation' of
fighters and differing philosophies with regards to fighting styles. if
anyone wants to hear it, I'll post it. it also has some interesting
info about how the circuit and the WWs came to be, etc.

> WW's should always be mythic figures, and the players really shouldn't know
> what their abilities are... except for the obviously famous ones, Ryu's DP
> and Fei Long's DK, for example.
>

weeeellll.... if they're that famous, everyone knows their signature
moves. Blanka for the majority of my campaign has been a subject of
much debate, as a lot of the fighting community doesn't believe he even
exists; he's a little weird even for a 'hybrid'. but one thing is
certain; everyone knows he's quite 'shocking' to watch.

> The WW's as listed are pretty much taken from their abilities in the video
> game, etc.
>

aye. and for the most part, those abilities work.

> > Hm. This small tip uses up a lot of space. Whatever. Why exactly do the
> > WWs suck then? Lack of intelligent Combos is the main reason. Another

Short to Lightning Leg. Yes, they could be better, comparitively, but
the evil WWs especialy have some nasty ones. Look at Bison and Sagat.

>
> Haha, I have no defense... this is one of the problems of the game, depending
> on how it's GM'ed. In the campaign I was in, our GM was sadistically just
> pitting really annoying fighters against us all the time, and there is really
> no choice at that point but to crunch crunch crunch or lose lose lose.
> Losing's not too bad, except who wants to roleplay a loser?
>

Are we still bitter over the tournament that had a "leave the ring, lose
the match" rule and our opponents had Zen No Mind and Back Roll Throw?

I can vouch for this; Derek didn't realize just how stingy he was being
with XP until we held a crossover game where my players fought a few
matches against his, my players using the stock rules for XP gain and
his using his patented Derek Voting System. My players wiped the floor
with them, even though my guys had been playing shorter sessions over
about the same time period.

>
> I'm all for it... depends how much exp the GM gives you though. Our evil GM
> was very stingy with the experience, and budgeting became pretty important,
> especially since the nature of the campaign just made opponents more and more
> difficult. I don't know why this approach to GMing seems so prevalent (with
> many GM's I have seen... the higher you go, the tougher bad guys get, that's
> how things get developed).
>

It's the nature of the beast in Street Fighter because you'd expect
that, as you got higher in rank, the competition improved. I mean, duh
Howard. :) They're rank seven because they kick ass, remember?

My favorite Derek character was the Ler Drit cyborg. Woo.

> I like a modification of this suggestion that I've used in other systems:
> players get experience, and they also get either (a) flat points put into
> skills the character used during the adventure, or (b) a discount on those
> skills. "Well Kick Guy, here's your experience... keep saving for that point
> of Dex, or I have a bargain on Streetwise for you..."
>

I usually make players tell me why they want to increase a skill, or
make them take time out to train otherwise. The group hates being split
up like that. "Dammit, Ashe is going to be out for *HOW* long learning
Hyper Fist? Damn... okay, guess I'll go track down *my* sensei...
sigh..." "Hey wait a minute, if you two leave, what'll I do? I have no
XP to spend!"

> You know, the more I talk, the more I realize our GM sucks. Boo!
>

well, yea, he does. Why don't *you* tell him that? I offered to GM for
y'all a while back but he ignored my offer. Group vote! Group vote!


> Veto is the key. But what if a character wants to develop in one way only...
> say a guy wants to be a young Zangief, who has almost NOTHING in social
> abilities, etc, and just wants to pump Strength and Stamina and hit points up
> to insane levels and be a stupid wrestler? This is a fine line to walk,
> keeping a powergamer in check while avoiding curtailing characters so much
> that they all wind up being well-rounded-detective-social-fist-fighting guy,
> whom I find to be equally annoying.
>

you're just bitter because Sang Shun is neither. *ducking*
Power gamers will get less XP to spend on their munchinkistic ways
because they won't get as many roleplaying point awards, just tournament
fight awards. As Howard pointed out, it's hard to advance when you get
two or three XP a session.

> As far as powergaming goes, this is not the fault of the players in most
> cases, but the GM.

or has been pointed out, if the competition gets too tough, the players
will turn to crunching to compensate, forcing the GM to crunch even
more, which makes the players turn to... eh, you get the picture.

this happened the other day; I can see how players get this way. I
introduced a new player to SF, and he played along with a vet from one
of my other games. their first opponents were your stock low-level
speedies; 3/5/3 physicals with fairly piddly damage. The new player had
Dex 3, and as the ladies were using Musical Accompaniment, they
reguardly interrupted him on 7 or 8, with some Short Kick combos. By
the end of the fight, he was muttering "must raise dex". He was
ignoring the fact that he was smashing them senseless when he *did* hit,
though.

>
>
>
> 3) The GM, thinking that this is a clever counter to the powergamers, puts
> in really hard enemies. Players take this as a hint to crunch combat even
> more.
>

see above.


>
> And on it goes.

personally I think the "reining in powergamers" problem is inherent to
all rpgs and not just Street Fighter... you just notice it more here
because it's a little easier to crunch on your own. not to mention a
lot of the fighters in the game are egotistical shmucks. players
imitate the games when they don't have anything else to go on,
especially when not familiar with the genre.

>

> through the roof. Also, if played by the book, managers drop fighters with
> losing records, which makes sense, but there must be a lot of street fighters
> around who have no manager and consequently cannot find a fight.
>

I'm sure Freddie Velvet doesn't have that high a turnover rate...
and besides, you told me ages ago a fighter doesn't need a manager to
find a fight. Hell, ours is worth four dots and she never even knows
*who* we're fighting, let alone what they're capable of...

> Hmm... OUR GM SUCKS! BOO!
>

we know, Howard, we know. you guys wanna try a new game with a new GM,
let me know.

> One last thing: a lot of people tend to look at the problems with
> powergaming and roleplaying in a system like Street Fighter very very
> seriously. I personally find the system to be more fun when not taken

only because if someone hits on a winning combo it may very well be
difficult to get around it. Hence the honor penalties for 'broken
record' fighting at higher levels, especially.

> seriously... many adventures I've been on I spend about half my character's
> time picking up on some inconsequential detail, miscontruing it, and
> following up on it to excessive lengths, much to everyone's amusement. And
> amusement is, of course, the ultimate goal of any game.
>
> "What's this... Pro Force?"
>

"Ah, so that's the path that Fidget took."

> Musashi the Powergamer, President of the Senor Mezcalito Fan Club
>

Quote of the week:

"Well, it looks okay to me. For Tae Kwon Do, I mean. I can't say I
know anything about it."

- "Outback Jack" Hogan, Western Kickboxer and Movie Star

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Group: streetfighter Message: 456 From: REMO DISCONZI Date: 12/21/1998
Subject: Re: hello...?
> apart from one or two of them, like Zangief, the World Warriors are
> *quite* capable of kicking ass. Nobody will be able to *touch* Vega or
> Chun Li with those Dex 7 Athletics 7 maneuvers. And Chun Li's 45-die
> lightning leg attack? on 7 after a short kick? good Lord.
>
> however, I have a bit of background story that explains why the WWs
> aren't as "good" as they could be; something about a 'new generation' of
> fighters and differing philosophies with regards to fighting styles. if
> anyone wants to hear it, I'll post it. it also has some interesting
> info about how the circuit and the WWs came to be, etc.

I want to hear!

> > The WW's as listed are pretty much taken from their abilities in the
video
> > game, etc.
> >
>
> aye. and for the most part, those abilities work.

Or then again, maybe not. I *still* say Vega was badly translated to the
Street Fighter RPG...

> Short to Lightning Leg. Yes, they could be better, comparitively, but
> the evil WWs especialy have some nasty ones. Look at Bison and Sagat.

Excuse me, but Short to Lightning Leg *does* work. One of my major NPCs,
Gerrard the androgynous Savate fighter, had it and he could kick ass pretty
well.

> Are we still bitter over the tournament that had a "leave the ring, lose
> the match" rule and our opponents had Zen No Mind and Back Roll Throw?

You guys are lucky.. at least you have some *challenge* in the SF
campaign you're playin' in. The SF campaign I played as a player had too
easy NPCs because the GM was really bad on choosing maneuvers and stuff..
and there's no fun in beating an NPC who practically could not defend
himself..

> I can vouch for this; Derek didn't realize just how stingy he was being
> with XP until we held a crossover game where my players fought a few
> matches against his, my players using the stock rules for XP gain and
> his using his patented Derek Voting System. My players wiped the floor
> with them, even though my guys had been playing shorter sessions over
> about the same time period.

This Derek Experience system looks GOOD! I want details!!!

> >
> > I'm all for it... depends how much exp the GM gives you though. Our
evil GM
> > was very stingy with the experience, and budgeting became pretty
important,
> > especially since the nature of the campaign just made opponents more
and more
> > difficult. I don't know why this approach to GMing seems so prevalent
(with
> > many GM's I have seen... the higher you go, the tougher bad guys get,
that's
> > how things get developed).

Saying that a GM is evil is an evil action itself. The poor guy spends
his time doing NPCs and setting plotlines for the joy of you and your group
and you say he's evil? Although I know players have a tendency to
exagerate, because in the campaign I was GMing, there was the final enemy,
Shiro, and the players started bitching when they discovered that the guy's
Health was 25.. goog Lord..

> My favorite Derek character was the Ler Drit cyborg. Woo.

Ler Drit cyborg? There's somethin' trashy...

> well, yea, he does. Why don't *you* tell him that? I offered to GM for
> y'all a while back but he ignored my offer. Group vote! Group vote!

I agree on this one. If you don't like the way the GM GMs, tell him right
on the face. The thing I hate the most is when players are always bitching
among themselves but *never* tell the GM what's wrong...

> you're just bitter because Sang Shun is neither. *ducking*
> Power gamers will get less XP to spend on their munchinkistic ways
> because they won't get as many roleplaying point awards, just tournament
> fight awards. As Howard pointed out, it's hard to advance when you get
> two or three XP a session.

Who's Sang Shun?


> of my other games. their first opponents were your stock low-level
> speedies; 3/5/3 physicals with fairly piddly damage. The new player had

How can you say 3/5/3 ladies are low level? My character, Michelle is a
3/5/3 and she's the major kickass in the whole campaign

> > Hmm... OUR GM SUCKS! BOO!

Again, don't say bad stuff about the poor guy...

> > "What's this... Pro Force?"

What's Pro Force anyway?

Anyway, here goes a question: has any of you changed Street Fighter for
Thrash because of the system's flexability?

-Remo (who will only play with characters of Appearance 4 or higher)

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Group: streetfighter Message: 457 From: Steve 'Doom Trooper' Karstensen Date: 12/21/1998
Subject: Re: hello...?
REMO DISCONZI wrote:
>

>
> Or then again, maybe not. I *still* say Vega was badly translated to the
> Street Fighter RPG...
>

they forgot his bunny suit, the source of all his power.

>
> Excuse me, but Short to Lightning Leg *does* work. One of my major NPCs,
> Gerrard the androgynous Savate fighter, had it and he could kick ass pretty
> well.
>

I was providing that as an example of a combo that *does* work.
compared to one of my players' Block -> Backflip Kick -> Rolling Attack,
it's not as good as the evility of players with devious minds.


> This Derek Experience system looks GOOD! I want details!!!
>

I hope you're being sarcastic. :)

Derek Voting System;

1) Choose arbitrary range of numbers for players to pick from based on
length of session and loosely based on book value (IE, 4-6, 5-7, etc).

2) Let players vote on each others' performance, including their own, by
writing down how much XP they think each player should get. ("Sang Shun
spent the whole time following Terri around, and as a consequence,
Dakota and I got our asses kicked by ninja. He gets a 5. I, on the
other hand, solved the mystery. I get a 7. Dakota gets a 6 because,
well, he drank a lot, but at least he was paying attention.")

3) average the numbers for each player and assign that much XP.


>
> Saying that a GM is evil is an evil action itself. The poor guy spends
> his time doing NPCs and setting plotlines for the joy of you and your group
> and you say he's evil?

Derek is evil, if only because of his psychotic laugh. I enjoy his
games, personally, but he needs to tweak a few things... like learning
how to *QUICKLY* run mass combat. ("Oh shit, we just got jumped by
twenty ninja! Guess I know what we'll be doing for the next three
hours. Who wants pizza?")

> > My favorite Derek character was the Ler Drit cyborg. Woo.
>
> Ler Drit cyborg? There's somethin' trashy...
>

dos palabras; Health-Powered Psycho Crushers.

> I agree on this one. If you don't like the way the GM GMs, tell him right
> on the face. The thing I hate the most is when players are always bitching
> among themselves but *never* tell the GM what's wrong...

eh. players always want more XP than they're given... :)

>
> Who's Sang Shun?

Howard's silly Kung Fu guy.

>
>
>
> How can you say 3/5/3 ladies are low level? My character, Michelle is a
> 3/5/3 and she's the major kickass in the whole campaign
>

I say that because a rank 1 fighter can get those stats. they're a good
balance between speed and power with the emphasis on speed, and most
beginning Wu Shu fighters or budding Speed Freaks take them.

> > > Hmm... OUR GM SUCKS! BOO!
>
> Again, don't say bad stuff about the poor guy...

eh, Howard's just funny that way. recently, though, one of the other
players did indeed forward an E-mail to our GM regarding a long
expositional scenario he made us wade through; he spent hours setting up
the plot for a tournament, and then my character proceeded to get
knocked out of said tournament in the first round after I'd been sitting
there for hours. didn't bother me none, but Tony took offense. since
we haven't played since then, no idea if'n Derek's done any improving on
his plot-writing.

>
> > > "What's this... Pro Force?"
>
> What's Pro Force anyway?

You mean you don't know?!

>
> Anyway, here goes a question: has any of you changed Street Fighter for
> Thrash because of the system's flexability?
>

nope. no need. I been running SF for close to two years and I know it
inside and out. no reason to change...

> -Remo (who will only play with characters of Appearance 4 or higher)
>

handsome fighters never lose a battle... unless they're hit with five
shuriken while speeding away in a sports car. *SCREEECH BAM!*

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Group: streetfighter Message: 458 From: Howard Collins Date: 12/21/1998
Subject: Re: hello...?
Steve 'Doom Trooper' Karstensen wrote:

> 2) Let players vote on each others' performance, including their own, by
> writing down how much XP they think each player should get. ("Sang Shun
> spent the whole time following Terri around, and as a consequence,
> Dakota and I got our asses kicked by ninja. He gets a 5. I, on the
> other hand, solved the mystery. I get a 7. Dakota gets a 6 because,
> well, he drank a lot, but at least he was paying attention.")

Umm... detective Outback Jack shouldn't be leaving his day job. 8P Actually if I
remember correctly, Sang Shun used to solve all the mysteries, but then get sleepy
and nod off at the end of the 67845 hour sessions, and so would get little
experience. Now I ignore the mysteries and just make insane jokes, which gets me
more experience and keeps me awake!

> > Saying that a GM is evil is an evil action itself. The poor guy spends
> > his time doing NPCs and setting plotlines for the joy of you and your group
> > and you say he's evil?
>
> Derek is evil, if only because of his psychotic laugh. I enjoy his
> games, personally, but he needs to tweak a few things... like learning
> how to *QUICKLY* run mass combat. ("Oh shit, we just got jumped by
> twenty ninja! Guess I know what we'll be doing for the next three
> hours. Who wants pizza?")

Bring a book to the fist fight.

> > Who's Sang Shun?
>
> Howard's silly Kung Fu guy.

The second best roleplaying character ever (next to Senor Mezcalito).

> > > > "What's this... Pro Force?"
> >
> > What's Pro Force anyway?
>
> You mean you don't know?!

Nope...

--
http://www.accessgate.net/howard for nonsensical rants about things nobody cares
about



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Group: streetfighter Message: 459 From: Steve 'Doom Trooper' Karstensen Date: 12/21/1998
Subject: Re: hello...?
Howard Collins wrote:
>
> Umm... detective Outback Jack shouldn't be leaving his day job. 8P Actually if I

it's called an "example". I didn't see you complaining when I rolled
five successes on my Drive roll to get your ass out of that Columbian
drug cartel's estate...

hehe.

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Group: streetfighter Message: 460 From: Morgado, Mike Date: 12/21/1998
Subject: Questions and stuff
Has anyone ever had a team start fighting each other in a middle of a
tournament fight? It almost happened with us. (Hi Mikey) We were
fighting that team in Secrets of Shadoloo (The one with Blade the
Spanish Ninja guy) Well my boxer disposed of Blade in two hits. He
dizzied him and then finished him off. While the Special Forces guy on
our team dizzied someone and was waiting for him to undizzy. While he
waited my boxer clobbered his opponent. Well this got into an arguement
about honour and hitting someone while they were dizzy, oh and from
behind. They almost went at it in the middle of a fight while the rest
of the team was still fighting. I was just wondering if this ever
happened to anyone else.

Also another question. Has this happened to anyone else? We played
where we were undercover operatives infiltrating Shadoloo. We did a lot
of espionage and back alley brawls, but we very rarely fought in
tournaments. Needless to say, when we did, we had some experience
racked up. So those poor rank one fighters were REALLY easy to beat.
"What do you mean he's unconscious? I only hit once!"

It was a lot of fun. Too bad my roleplaying group is all spread out
across Ontario now :-(

MIKEM - "Im not going to kill him. . . But I will just stand here and
hold my sword pointed at him like this....OH MY GOD! You threw him at
me, and I couldnt move my sword in time" (Yes this did happen once)

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Group: streetfighter Message: 461 From: Steve 'Doom Trooper' Karstensen Date: 12/21/1998
Subject: Re: Questions and stuff
Morgado, Mike wrote:

> Also another question. Has this happened to anyone else? We played
> where we were undercover operatives infiltrating Shadoloo. We did a lot
> of espionage and back alley brawls, but we very rarely fought in
> tournaments. Needless to say, when we did, we had some experience
> racked up. So those poor rank one fighters were REALLY easy to beat.
> "What do you mean he's unconscious? I only hit once!"
>

this is the case in my group; the fighters rarely fought in tournaments
and when they did, they would clean up unless they challenged a few
ranks higher. it evens out eventually.

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Group: streetfighter Message: 462 From: Ryan M Rich Date: 12/21/1998
Subject: Re: hello...?
Steve, let us all in on the new style of fighting. Why the new guard are
better than their older (more dated) brethren.

RMR


On Mon, 21 Dec 1998 12:03:55 -0500 "Steve 'Doom Trooper' Karstensen"
<skarsten@...> writes:
>Howard Collins wrote:
>>
>> kristofer lundstrom wrote:
>>
>> > - Quit and start again before your characters reach World Warrior
>rank.
>> > The only reason for this is that the World Warriors suck and they
>> > shouldn't. Or as the Storyteller: exaggerate the WW's powers.
>Make sure
>> > your players realise just how good the WWs really are. Hint that
>the
>> > traits printed in the sourcebooks show the WWs a few years back.
>>
>
>apart from one or two of them, like Zangief, the World Warriors are
>*quite* capable of kicking ass. Nobody will be able to *touch* Vega
>or
>Chun Li with those Dex 7 Athletics 7 maneuvers. And Chun Li's 45-die
>lightning leg attack? on 7 after a short kick? good Lord.
>
>however, I have a bit of background story that explains why the WWs
>aren't as "good" as they could be; something about a 'new generation'
>of
>fighters and differing philosophies with regards to fighting styles.
>if
>anyone wants to hear it, I'll post it. it also has some interesting
>info about how the circuit and the WWs came to be, etc.
>
>> WW's should always be mythic figures, and the players really
>shouldn't know
>> what their abilities are... except for the obviously famous ones,
>Ryu's DP
>> and Fei Long's DK, for example.
>>
>
>weeeellll.... if they're that famous, everyone knows their signature
>moves. Blanka for the majority of my campaign has been a subject of
>much debate, as a lot of the fighting community doesn't believe he
>even
>exists; he's a little weird even for a 'hybrid'. but one thing is
>certain; everyone knows he's quite 'shocking' to watch.
>
>> The WW's as listed are pretty much taken from their abilities in
>the video
>> game, etc.
>>
>
>aye. and for the most part, those abilities work.
>
>> > Hm. This small tip uses up a lot of space. Whatever. Why exactly
>do the
>> > WWs suck then? Lack of intelligent Combos is the main reason.
>Another
>
>Short to Lightning Leg. Yes, they could be better, comparitively, but
>the evil WWs especialy have some nasty ones. Look at Bison and Sagat.
>
>>
>> Haha, I have no defense... this is one of the problems of the game,
>depending
>> on how it's GM'ed. In the campaign I was in, our GM was
>sadistically just
>> pitting really annoying fighters against us all the time, and there
>is really
>> no choice at that point but to crunch crunch crunch or lose lose
>lose.
>> Losing's not too bad, except who wants to roleplay a loser?
>>
>
>Are we still bitter over the tournament that had a "leave the ring,
>lose
>the match" rule and our opponents had Zen No Mind and Back Roll Throw?
>
>I can vouch for this; Derek didn't realize just how stingy he was
>being
>with XP until we held a crossover game where my players fought a few
>matches against his, my players using the stock rules for XP gain and
>his using his patented Derek Voting System. My players wiped the
>floor
>with them, even though my guys had been playing shorter sessions over
>about the same time period.
>
>>
>> I'm all for it... depends how much exp the GM gives you though.
>Our evil GM
>> was very stingy with the experience, and budgeting became pretty
>important,
>> especially since the nature of the campaign just made opponents
>more and more
>> difficult. I don't know why this approach to GMing seems so
>prevalent (with
>> many GM's I have seen... the higher you go, the tougher bad guys
>get, that's
>> how things get developed).
>>
>
>It's the nature of the beast in Street Fighter because you'd expect
>that, as you got higher in rank, the competition improved. I mean,
>duh
>Howard. :) They're rank seven because they kick ass, remember?
>
>My favorite Derek character was the Ler Drit cyborg. Woo.
>
>> I like a modification of this suggestion that I've used in other
>systems:
>> players get experience, and they also get either (a) flat points
>put into
>> skills the character used during the adventure, or (b) a discount
>on those
>> skills. "Well Kick Guy, here's your experience... keep saving for
>that point
>> of Dex, or I have a bargain on Streetwise for you..."
>>
>
>I usually make players tell me why they want to increase a skill, or
>make them take time out to train otherwise. The group hates being
>split
>up like that. "Dammit, Ashe is going to be out for *HOW* long
>learning
>Hyper Fist? Damn... okay, guess I'll go track down *my* sensei...
>sigh..." "Hey wait a minute, if you two leave, what'll I do? I have
>no
>XP to spend!"
>
>> You know, the more I talk, the more I realize our GM sucks. Boo!
>>
>
>well, yea, he does. Why don't *you* tell him that? I offered to GM
>for
>y'all a while back but he ignored my offer. Group vote! Group vote!
>
>
>> Veto is the key. But what if a character wants to develop in one
>way only...
>> say a guy wants to be a young Zangief, who has almost NOTHING in
>social
>> abilities, etc, and just wants to pump Strength and Stamina and hit
>points up
>> to insane levels and be a stupid wrestler? This is a fine line to
>walk,
>> keeping a powergamer in check while avoiding curtailing characters
>so much
>> that they all wind up being
>well-rounded-detective-social-fist-fighting guy,
>> whom I find to be equally annoying.
>>
>
>you're just bitter because Sang Shun is neither. *ducking*
>Power gamers will get less XP to spend on their munchinkistic ways
>because they won't get as many roleplaying point awards, just
>tournament
>fight awards. As Howard pointed out, it's hard to advance when you
>get
>two or three XP a session.
>
>> As far as powergaming goes, this is not the fault of the players in
>most
>> cases, but the GM.
>
>or has been pointed out, if the competition gets too tough, the
>players
>will turn to crunching to compensate, forcing the GM to crunch even
>more, which makes the players turn to... eh, you get the picture.
>
>this happened the other day; I can see how players get this way. I
>introduced a new player to SF, and he played along with a vet from one
>of my other games. their first opponents were your stock low-level
>speedies; 3/5/3 physicals with fairly piddly damage. The new player
>had
>Dex 3, and as the ladies were using Musical Accompaniment, they
>reguardly interrupted him on 7 or 8, with some Short Kick combos. By
>the end of the fight, he was muttering "must raise dex". He was
>ignoring the fact that he was smashing them senseless when he *did*
>hit,
>though.
>
>>
>>
>>
>> 3) The GM, thinking that this is a clever counter to the
>powergamers, puts
>> in really hard enemies. Players take this as a hint to crunch
>combat even
>> more.
>>
>
>see above.
>
>
>>
>> And on it goes.
>
>personally I think the "reining in powergamers" problem is inherent to
>all rpgs and not just Street Fighter... you just notice it more here
>because it's a little easier to crunch on your own. not to mention a
>lot of the fighters in the game are egotistical shmucks. players
>imitate the games when they don't have anything else to go on,
>especially when not familiar with the genre.
>
>>
>
>> through the roof. Also, if played by the book, managers drop
>fighters with
>> losing records, which makes sense, but there must be a lot of
>street fighters
>> around who have no manager and consequently cannot find a fight.
>>
>
>I'm sure Freddie Velvet doesn't have that high a turnover rate...
>and besides, you told me ages ago a fighter doesn't need a manager to
>find a fight. Hell, ours is worth four dots and she never even knows
>*who* we're fighting, let alone what they're capable of...
>
>> Hmm... OUR GM SUCKS! BOO!
>>
>
>we know, Howard, we know. you guys wanna try a new game with a new
>GM,
>let me know.
>
>> One last thing: a lot of people tend to look at the problems with
>> powergaming and roleplaying in a system like Street Fighter very
>very
>> seriously. I personally find the system to be more fun when not
>taken
>
>only because if someone hits on a winning combo it may very well be
>difficult to get around it. Hence the honor penalties for 'broken
>record' fighting at higher levels, especially.
>
>> seriously... many adventures I've been on I spend about half my
>character's
>> time picking up on some inconsequential detail, miscontruing it,
>and
>> following up on it to excessive lengths, much to everyone's
>amusement. And
>> amusement is, of course, the ultimate goal of any game.
>>
>> "What's this... Pro Force?"
>>
>
>"Ah, so that's the path that Fidget took."
>
>> Musashi the Powergamer, President of the Senor Mezcalito Fan Club
>>
>
>Quote of the week:
>
>"Well, it looks okay to me. For Tae Kwon Do, I mean. I can't say I
>know anything about it."
>
> - "Outback Jack" Hogan, Western Kickboxer and Movie
>Star
>
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Group: streetfighter Message: 463 From: REMO DISCONZI Date: 12/21/1998
Subject: Re: hello...?
> they forgot his bunny suit, the source of all his power.

No comment... ~_~;

> I was providing that as an example of a combo that *does* work.
> compared to one of my players' Block -> Backflip Kick -> Rolling Attack,
> it's not as good as the evility of players with devious minds.

There's a combo that does *not* work at all...

> I hope you're being sarcastic. :)

Nope! ^_^

> Derek Voting System;
>
> 1) Choose arbitrary range of numbers for players to pick from based on
> length of session and loosely based on book value (IE, 4-6, 5-7, etc).
>
> 2) Let players vote on each others' performance, including their own, by
> writing down how much XP they think each player should get. ("Sang Shun
> spent the whole time following Terri around, and as a consequence,
> Dakota and I got our asses kicked by ninja. He gets a 5. I, on the
> other hand, solved the mystery. I get a 7. Dakota gets a 6 because,
> well, he drank a lot, but at least he was paying attention.")
>
> 3) average the numbers for each player and assign that much XP.

Derek's system is *marvelous*! Tell him I liked it very much!

> Derek is evil, if only because of his psychotic laugh. I enjoy his
> games, personally, but he needs to tweak a few things... like learning
> how to *QUICKLY* run mass combat. ("Oh shit, we just got jumped by
> twenty ninja! Guess I know what we'll be doing for the next three
> hours. Who wants pizza?")

Well, I do psychotic laughs myself, so... ~_~;

> dos palabras; Health-Powered Psycho Crushers.

Effectvive, but still trashy

> eh. players always want more XP than they're given... :)

Agreed!

> > Who's Sang Shun?
>
> Howard's silly Kung Fu guy.

Is he really silly? Which is his signature maneuver?

> > How can you say 3/5/3 ladies are low level? My character, Michelle
is a
> > 3/5/3 and she's the major kickass in the whole campaign
> >
>
> I say that because a rank 1 fighter can get those stats. they're a good
> balance between speed and power with the emphasis on speed, and most
> beginning Wu Shu fighters or budding Speed Freaks take them.

Wu Shu sux! Savate rules!

> > > > Hmm... OUR GM SUCKS! BOO!
> >
> > Again, don't say bad stuff about the poor guy...
>
> eh, Howard's just funny that way. recently, though, one of the other
> players did indeed forward an E-mail to our GM regarding a long
> expositional scenario he made us wade through; he spent hours setting up
> the plot for a tournament, and then my character proceeded to get
> knocked out of said tournament in the first round after I'd been sitting
> there for hours. didn't bother me none, but Tony took offense. since
> we haven't played since then, no idea if'n Derek's done any improving on
> his plot-writing.

It happens. Anyway, for some reason, I'm starting to like this Derek
guy...

> > > > "What's this... Pro Force?"
> >
> > What's Pro Force anyway?
>
> You mean you don't know?!

Nope!

> > -Remo (who will only play with characters of Appearance 4 or higher)
> >
>
> handsome fighters never lose a battle... unless they're hit with five
> shuriken while speeding away in a sports car. *SCREEECH BAM!*

That won't happen, because I only play with characters with Appearance of
4 or higher AND must be either Savate or Spanish Ninjitsu fighters.. which
means.. Esquives!

-Remo (ohhhh! I looooove Savate fighters!)

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Group: streetfighter Message: 464 From: Micheal Duynhoven Date: 12/21/1998
Subject: Fw: Questions and stuff
> From: Morgado, Mike <MMorgado@...>
> To: 'StreetFighter' <streetfighter@egroups.com>
> Subject: [streetfighter] Questions and stuff
> Date: December 21, 1998 2:51 PM

> It was a lot of fun. Too bad my roleplaying group is all spread out
> across Ontario now :-(
I am trying to remedy some of that by finding you a decent job up here! :P

> MIKEM - "Im not going to kill him. . . But I will just stand here and
> hold my sword pointed at him like this....OH MY GOD! You threw him at
> me, and I couldnt move my sword in time" (Yes this did happen once)

It is close, but is more like. On PC had the enemy up by the shirt with two
fists. Asked The GM to determine all aspects of the characters. The GM
(Myself) asked several characters their respective positioning and stances
in the room. The PC, James (Mike M's PC) was somewhat relaxed with his
sword held firmly forward by his hand slightly above his side. The other PC
threw the enemy at James and due to the relaxed stance and placement of the
weapon. Impaled the enemy on the sword, dealing the final deadly blow.
Kinda interesting all the people that sword has almost killed or has
killed. (Sorry Morgy).

Micheal Duynhoven
jarlath@...

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Group: streetfighter Message: 465 From: Steve 'Doom Trooper' Karstensen Date: 12/22/1998
Subject: History of the Circuit
There's always been Street Fighting in one form or another; hell, in the
early eighteen hundreds, underground boxing matches were very popular in
the eastern US. It wasn't until recently, though (about forty or fifty
years ago) that fighters from one form of circuit began to seek out and
challenge fighters from others on a regular basis. The practice has
always been around, but since there was little to gain other than
personal honor, only the most dedicated of warriors would do so.

It is important to note that there was no real circuit at this time, nor
was Street Fighting a particularly organized (for an underground)
sport. Fighters still would do most of their own managing, and there
was no ranking system. It wasn't until Sagat appeared in the mid to
late seventies that things began to change.

There was no 'official' title of Grand Champion. It just kind of
evolved after a while, since until recently, Sagat was undefeated. Even
other fighters with flawless records fell to his mighty attacks, and
soon he became known as the world's greatest fighter.

That is, until the now-famous day in fistfighting history when Ryu
stepped up to knock him into next week.

Upon taking the title from Sagat, Ryu reflected on his journeys the
world over, seeking out fighters for combat. It had potential, he
thought, and he sought to make the practice more widespread. He
contacted his former training partner Ken and, knowing Ken's taste for
the flash and glitter of professional martial arts, figured the two of
them could change the world.

He was right. Soon, through the efforts of themselves and others, more
and more fighters began to emerge. Their reasons for seeking combat
were their own, whether it was honor, glory, money, or the chance to
better themselves. Crowds the world over loved the spectacle of the
matches, which to this day retain about the same regulations as they did
originally. The Ranking system was Ken's idea, because otherwise there
was no concrete way of gauging a fighter's skill. New warriors could
not risk fighting someone out of their league as the potential for
injury was too great.

Through all of this, Ryu began to distain his 'title' more and more.
There were many other fighters out there just as worthy of recognition
as himself. Soon after, the first World Warrior tournament was held,
bringing the finest fighters from all over the world to compete over the
course of several months. The eight winners of this tournament (Ryu and
Ken, the mystic Dhalsim, the American Guile, Edmond Honda from Japan,
Chun Li Xiang from China, the mighty Zangief, and the exotic and savage
Blanka) assumed the titles of World Warrior, providing an ideal for all
others to strive for.

It is important to note at this time the role Focus abilities played in
combat. These mysterious and exotic maneuvers, which included the other
super-powered techniques such as the Hundred Hand Slap and Dragon Punch
in addition to the likes of Fireball and Cobra Charm, were unique and
very rarely seen, the jealously-guarded secrets of masters the world
over, who felt that these techniques were not worthy of those who would
fight for sport. The main reason the World Warriors won their
tournaments and ascended to their lofty rank was, indeed, because of
their mastery of these maneuvers; few could stand Blanka's powerful
rolling attacks or Chun Li's lightning kicks, especially since defending
against them was difficult to teach without knowing anything about them.

Once the World Warriors proved the circuit was good training grounds for
other noble fighters, more and more masters began to open their schools
to many new students, and a new generation of fighters began to learn
the secrets of old, lest they be lost forever.

Ryu's original tenements of the World Warrior code came back to haunt
him, though, as soon others reached that rank through treachery.
Assuming that the only way to achieve such a goal was by hard work,
discipline, and self-mastery, ideals he felt only honorable fighters
could achieve, he merely set the requirements as that of a (relatively)
impeccable record, and the stipulation that defeating one of the World
Warriors would allow the winner to ascend to their ranks.

This backfired when three fighters appeared on the scene and flew to
World Warrior status through no good will at all; Barry L. Rogers, known
to his fans as "Balrog", Santiago Vega, the Spanish assassin, and Sagat
himself, returning to the new circuit after a long hiatus. Soon after,
the mysterious dictator M. Bison cut a swath through the circuit,
achieving a flawless record and World Warrior status in six short
months. Fortunately, the next four individuals to make that rank (Cammy
White, Dee Jay, Thunder Hawk, and Fei Long) were of better caliber;
otherwise, who knows what Ryu (still looked upon as the leader by the
other World Warriors due to his previous title holdings) would have
done.

Growing sick of the commercialization, exploit, and general scumminess
of the mainstream circuit, Ryu has now semi-retired, leaving the
fighting to the younger and more innovative opponents. This brings us
to our next area of interest; change.

The circuit is constantly changing, and the more widespread use of
tactics that, up until a few years ago, were entirely unheard of has led
to a number of new techniques and tricks that more traditional fighters
have been unable to adapt to. Still holding to the firm belief that
they do not need to change, the majority of the World Warriors continue
to compete, feeling that their skills are sufficient to take on all
comers, new-fangled combos or not. Usually, they are right. However,
with the constant influx of new fighters using new styles, some not
practiced (or seen by outsiders) for hundreds of years, there are more
and more new tricks to learn (or learn to defend against), and as many
of the World Warriors are too busy with other pursuits, they do not
continue to keep on top of things as well as they could.

There is also the concept of exchange; originally, the best fighters
were trained from youth in secluded temples or schools, and had little
contact with the other forms of fighting until their style was rigidly
engrained into their minds. This is no longer the case. As soon as
most fighters learn to kick without falling over, they're on the circuit
and learning as they go. They come in contact with many other fighters,
from differing schools (same style or not!) and often learn from them,
incorporating these new techniques into their more flexible regimens.

Who knows what the next breed of World Warrior, having come from this
new era of widespread exchange and mainstream fight culture, will be
like? Times have changed since the first traditional World Warrior
tournament, and should there be another, who will be victorious?

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Group: streetfighter Message: 466 From: Wayne French Date: 12/22/1998
Subject: Looking for more info
hello,

i have been only able to find a little stuff about streetfighter stg pn
the net, or for sale in roleplaying shops. i would like to know if you
have any info you could send me about it, no matter what it is.
if you could do this and tell the others at egroup about streetfighter
so they could also send me info, i would be grateful.

thank you

wayne j. french

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Group: streetfighter Message: 467 From: Steve 'Doom Trooper' Karstensen Date: 12/22/1998
Subject: Re: Looking for more info
we get this request a lot, especially since SF has been out of print for
so long. here's a few places to start;

Street Fighter Central
http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/skarsten/

hit the links page of SF Central for many other pages with much other
stuff. I especially recommend Musashi's Cheesy Homepage, primarily 'coz
it's got all the stuff I was too lazy to do (like a full-fledged
maneuvers list).

Musashi's Cheesy Homepage
http://www.accessgate.net/howard


Wayne French wrote:
>
> hello,
>
> i have been only able to find a little stuff about streetfighter stg pn
> the net, or for sale in roleplaying shops. i would like to know if you
> have any info you could send me about it, no matter what it is.
> if you could do this and tell the others at egroup about streetfighter
> so they could also send me info, i would be grateful.
>
> thank you
>
> wayne j. french
>
> ______________________________________________________
>
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Group: streetfighter Message: 468 From: REMO DISCONZI Date: 12/22/1998
Subject: Re: Looking for more info
> it's got all the stuff I was too lazy to do (like a full-fledged
> maneuvers list).

Howard's Page has this list...

-Remo

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Group: streetfighter Message: 469 From: Steve 'Doom Trooper' Karstensen Date: 12/22/1998
Subject: Re: Looking for more info
Yes Remo, that's what I said. *whack*

REMO DISCONZI wrote:
>
> > it's got all the stuff I was too lazy to do (like a full-fledged
> > maneuvers list).
>
> Howard's Page has this list...
>
> -Remo
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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Group: streetfighter Message: 470 From: REMO DISCONZI Date: 12/22/1998
Subject: Re: Looking for more info
O K A Y ! ! ! Maybe I did not notice...

-Remo

"Well, I guess I am thru. There are no more bones to break."
-- Vice, The King of Fighters '98

> Yes Remo, that's what I said. *whack*


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Group: streetfighter Message: 471 From: cam1984@hotmail.com Date: 12/22/1998
Subject: "purists"+yun/yang
i think that when you convert a move or a character, you should try to be true to BOTH street fighter AND the move or guy your converting.
im all for using stock moves when they fit, but sometimes they just dont. i think you have to be a purist of what you are converting as well as a street fighter purist, whats the point of converting someone if they arent going to have what they are supposed to have(whether white wolf made it or not).

but on the flipside, ive also seen what can happen when you start letting players make their own skills moves attacks (in any game) and it can ruin a game if your not carefull.

if you want to convert and remain"a purist" i think you should take a move thats pretty powerfull in sf:stg that DOESNT come from a sf character, and think of a non-sf character that has it.
like ice man with ice blast, or juggernaught with shockwave.
etc.

also keep in mind that white wolf had more suppliments with more moves planned already, (see the earlier message about shadows over mexico[waay earlier])
if they dont feel like there was enough moves, why should we??
also, anyone who fights knows that theres a lot left out that would work well in the game) [like more than one kind of throw, or pin]

also someone asked about yun and yang and didnt get an answer, yun and yang(both have the exact same moves) are as follows in part three:

an attack that rolls at you(goes under fireballs) and then pops up at the end like gen's rising kick. length of the roll depends on button used.

a dashing punch that looks a bit different, like skipping(the kung fu guy in bloody roar has one too)

a slow as hell but hard hitting palm strike that cancels projectiles if timed right.

a grab that makes them flip over to the other side of you, where they can get in a unblocked attack to your back if they are quick.(or a super, hehehe)

a dive kick like akumas in sf alpha 2, looks more like a head stomp but doesnt bounce just comes down.

several double hit punches.

a airbuster kick like chun li's , kicking straight up.

an overhead attack(must block properly) that hops sweeps.

a sweep.

a knee basher

a backroll throw

a snake strike or whatever theyre called in shades of grey

Like everyone in three, a super jump a breakfall and a parry

also, conversions for these can be found on my page at:
http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Palace/9606/index.html

i read in a game mag that in the newer versions of three (second impact, third impact) they have different moves. so theyve changed, but not much(they share a lot of the old ones still) and i havent played the newer versions.

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Group: streetfighter Message: 472 From: Matt M. Date: 12/22/1998
Subject: one
Attachments :
    oh yeah i forgot to ask,
    does anyone have specific descriptionss of the special moves used in
    part one by the ppl who never returned in two?(retsu, eagle, joe, geki,
    etc.)
    id like to convert them.
    dont tell me one sucked , i already know.
    later, -matt (cam1984)

    also, am i the only one who thinks the attached picture is funny?:)
    (if it attaches right)

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    Group: streetfighter Message: 473 From: Matt M. Date: 12/22/1998
    Subject: jpg
    Attachments :
      jpg format

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      Group: streetfighter Message: 474 From: EvilTyger@aol.com Date: 12/23/1998
      Subject: Purists?
      Well, in one of the previous E-mail's, it mentioned "purists" for SF & WoD vs
      those who mixed the two.

      Now the question is, how much effort do some feel it is worth and which parts
      of the systems would be taken and tossed?

      I'd figure that Abilities would jump across fairly well.

      How about the Lotus line? (Kindred of the East, Demon Hunter X, etc.)

      Psi Powers, Hedge Magic, True Faith or Qiao?

      Personally, I laregly started in SF because, quite simply... it was the
      closest I could get to making a "normal" human for a WoD game at the time.
      (Hard to pick up books and found it in a bargain bin.)

      Of course, now I have all of WoD's Hunter & Ally books, and while the Focus
      powers can be a bit unbalancing.... it largely depends on who they're being
      used against. Haven't really done alot of "play testing" between them, which
      may be what I'm looking for. (Although Blind Fighting and Animal Companion
      have found their way into a WoD game or two.)


      If anyone managed to read through that mish mash of random thoughts,
      congradulations and thank you for your patience.
      ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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      Group: streetfighter Message: 475 From: Steve 'Doom Trooper' Karstensen Date: 12/23/1998
      Subject: Re: "purists"+yun/yang
      thanks. that'll help me a bunch. :)

      cam1984@... wrote:
      >
      > i think that when you convert a move or a character, you should try to be true to BOTH street fighter AND the move or guy your converting.
      > im all for using stock moves when they fit, but sometimes they just dont. i think you have to be a purist of what you are converting as well as a street fighter purist, whats the point of converting someone if they arent going to have what they are supposed to have(whether white wolf made it or not)
      >
      > but on the flipside, ive also seen what can happen when you start letting players make their own skills moves attacks (in any game) and it can ruin a game if your not carefull
      >
      > if you want to convert and remain"a purist" i think you should take a move thats pretty powerfull in sf:stg that DOESNT come from a sf character, and think of a non-sf character that has it
      > like ice man with ice blast, or juggernaught with shockwave.
      > etc.
      >
      > also keep in mind that white wolf had more suppliments with more moves planned already, (see the earlier message about shadows over mexico[waay earlier])
      > if they dont feel like there was enough moves, why should we??
      > also, anyone who fights knows that theres a lot left out that would work well in the game) [like more than one kind of throw, or pin]
      >
      > also someone asked about yun and yang and didnt get an answer, yun and yang(both have the exact same moves) are as follows in part three:
      >
      > an attack that rolls at you(goes under fireballs) and then pops up at the end like gen's rising kick. length of the roll depends on button used.
      >
      > a dashing punch that looks a bit different, like skipping(the kung fu guy in bloody roar has one too)
      >
      > a slow as hell but hard hitting palm strike that cancels projectiles if timed right.
      >
      > a grab that makes them flip over to the other side of you, where they can get in a unblocked attack to your back if they are quick.(or a super, hehehe)
      >
      > a dive kick like akumas in sf alpha 2, looks more like a head stomp but doesnt bounce just comes down.
      >
      > several double hit punches.
      >
      > a airbuster kick like chun li's , kicking straight up.
      >
      > an overhead attack(must block properly) that hops sweeps.
      >
      > a sweep.
      >
      > a knee basher
      >
      > a backroll throw
      >
      > a snake strike or whatever theyre called in shades of grey
      >
      > Like everyone in three, a super jump a breakfall and a parry
      >
      > also, conversions for these can be found on my page at:
      > http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Palace/9606/index.html
      >
      > i read in a game mag that in the newer versions of three (second impact, third impact) they have different moves. so theyve changed, but not much(they share a lot of the old ones still) and i havent played the newer versions
      >
      > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      > [Image]
      >
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      Group: streetfighter Message: 476 From: REMO DISCONZI Date: 12/23/1998
      Subject: Re: Purists?
      > Well, in one of the previous E-mail's, it mentioned "purists" for SF &
      WoD vs
      > those who mixed the two.
      >
      > Now the question is, how much effort do some feel it is worth and which
      parts
      > of the systems would be taken and tossed?

      I mix WoD and SF almost all the time, specially the Abilities part. You
      see, SF has no such skills like Etiquette or Performance, which
      combat-oriented only characters do not miss, but other kinds of characters
      need it and it's not available in SF books.

      > I'd figure that Abilities would jump across fairly well.

      You're right.

      > How about the Lotus line? (Kindred of the East, Demon Hunter X, etc.)

      The Lotus line is another thing which could be used quite well, and also,
      Kuei Jin could be good enemies for the street fighters.

      > Psi Powers, Hedge Magic, True Faith or Qiao?

      I already use True Faith in my games, but I only used it for 2 NPC which
      fought a particular Style, unavailable to player characters.

      > Personally, I laregly started in SF because, quite simply... it was the
      > closest I could get to making a "normal" human for a WoD game at the
      time.
      > (Hard to pick up books and found it in a bargain bin.)
      >
      > Of course, now I have all of WoD's Hunter & Ally books, and while the
      Focus
      > powers can be a bit unbalancing.... it largely depends on who they're
      being
      > used against. Haven't really done alot of "play testing" between them,
      which
      > may be what I'm looking for. (Although Blind Fighting and Animal
      Companion
      > have found their way into a WoD game or two.)
      >
      >
      > If anyone managed to read through that mish mash of random thoughts,
      > congradulations and thank you for your patience.

      -Remo

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      Group: streetfighter Message: 477 From: Steve 'Doom Trooper' Karstensen Date: 12/23/1998
      Subject: Re: History of the Circuit
      apparently I've shocked all of you into silence with the utter coolness
      of my background writeup... but don't let that stop you. discuss.

      :)

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      Group: streetfighter Message: 478 From: Steve 'Doom Trooper' Karstensen Date: 12/23/1998
      Subject: Re: Purists?
      I don't think the two genres mix because Street Fighter is based in
      high-powered action anime and martial arts movies, and World of Darkness
      is angsty, tragically-hip depression with superpowers. Street Fighters
      just can't be depressed and hip enough to fit into the World of
      Darkness. For that reason alone, I never saw fit to mix the two. I
      like them both, but it's like AD&D and Gurps Cyberpunk.

      EvilTyger@... wrote:
      >
      > Well, in one of the previous E-mail's, it mentioned "purists" for SF & WoD vs
      > those who mixed the two.
      >
      > Now the question is, how much effort do some feel it is worth and which parts
      > of the systems would be taken and tossed?
      >
      > I'd figure that Abilities would jump across fairly well.
      >
      > How about the Lotus line? (Kindred of the East, Demon Hunter X, etc.)
      >
      > Psi Powers, Hedge Magic, True Faith or Qiao?
      >
      > Personally, I laregly started in SF because, quite simply... it was the
      > closest I could get to making a "normal" human for a WoD game at the time.
      > (Hard to pick up books and found it in a bargain bin.)
      >
      > Of course, now I have all of WoD's Hunter & Ally books, and while the Focus
      > powers can be a bit unbalancing.... it largely depends on who they're being
      > used against. Haven't really done alot of "play testing" between them, which
      > may be what I'm looking for. (Although Blind Fighting and Animal Companion
      > have found their way into a WoD game or two.)
      >
      > If anyone managed to read through that mish mash of random thoughts,
      > congradulations and thank you for your patience.
      >
      > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      > [Image]
      >
      > Free Web-based e-mail groups -- www.eGroups.com

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      Group: streetfighter Message: 479 From: Morgado, Mike Date: 12/23/1998
      Subject: Re: Purists?
      I agree to an extent. The genres between SF and WoD are really
      different. The abilities cross over well but I havent been able to
      cross the combat at all. What have you done for combat? SF uses the hex
      map and WoD doesnt. I would like to hear what you guys have done (if
      anything). I have played Vampire, Mage, and Werewolf, but SF is still
      my favourite White Wolf game and I would love to see a Street Fighter
      kick the crap out of a vampire or better yet, a werewolf. hehehehehehe

      Also another questions. Is there any other rpgs out there that are
      martial arts based? I can't think of any except for Palladium's Ninja
      and Superspies.

      Thanks,

      MikeM

      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: Steve 'Doom Trooper' Karstensen [SMTP:skarsten@...]
      > Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 1998 11:18 AM
      > To: streetfighter@egroups.com
      > Subject: [streetfighter] Re: Purists?
      >
      > I don't think the two genres mix because Street Fighter is based in
      > high-powered action anime and martial arts movies, and World of
      > Darkness
      > is angsty, tragically-hip depression with superpowers. Street
      > Fighters
      > just can't be depressed and hip enough to fit into the World of
      > Darkness. For that reason alone, I never saw fit to mix the two. I
      > like them both, but it's like AD&D and Gurps Cyberpunk.
      >
      > EvilTyger@... wrote:
      > >
      > > Well, in one of the previous E-mail's, it mentioned "purists" for SF
      > & WoD vs
      > > those who mixed the two.
      > >
      > > Now the question is, how much effort do some feel it is worth and
      > which parts
      > > of the systems would be taken and tossed?
      > >
      > > I'd figure that Abilities would jump across fairly well.
      > >
      > > How about the Lotus line? (Kindred of the East, Demon Hunter X,
      > etc.)
      > >
      > > Psi Powers, Hedge Magic, True Faith or Qiao?
      > >
      > > Personally, I laregly started in SF because, quite simply... it was
      > the
      > > closest I could get to making a "normal" human for a WoD game at the
      > time.
      > > (Hard to pick up books and found it in a bargain bin.)
      > >
      > > Of course, now I have all of WoD's Hunter & Ally books, and while
      > the Focus
      > > powers can be a bit unbalancing.... it largely depends on who
      > they're being
      > > used against. Haven't really done alot of "play testing" between
      > them, which
      > > may be what I'm looking for. (Although Blind Fighting and Animal
      > Companion
      > > have found their way into a WoD game or two.)
      > >
      > > If anyone managed to read through that mish mash of random thoughts,
      > > congradulations and thank you for your patience.
      > >
      > >
      > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      > > [Image]
      > >
      > > Free Web-based e-mail groups -- www.eGroups.com
      >
      > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      > --
      > Great gifts for the Holidays or birthdays or anyday for that matter
      > Bugs Life action game, Thanksgiving Pooh, Disney videos, toys and
      > CD-ROMs
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      >
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      Group: streetfighter Message: 480 From: Steve 'Doom Trooper' Karstensen Date: 12/23/1998
      Subject: Re: Purists?
      if yer gonna do a crossover, it's easier to change WoD to SF than vice
      versa.

      commercial martial arts RPGs include;

      Feng Shui (I think, as it's based on action/kung fu movies)
      Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (mostly guns but a lot of unarmed combat)
      Ninjas & Superspies


      Morgado, Mike wrote:
      >
      > I agree to an extent. The genres between SF and WoD are really
      > different. The abilities cross over well but I havent been able to
      > cross the combat at all. What have you done for combat? SF uses the hex
      > map and WoD doesnt. I would like to hear what you guys have done (if
      > anything). I have played Vampire, Mage, and Werewolf, but SF is still
      > my favourite White Wolf game and I would love to see a Street Fighter
      > kick the crap out of a vampire or better yet, a werewolf. hehehehehehe
      >
      > Also another questions. Is there any other rpgs out there that are
      > martial arts based? I can't think of any except for Palladium's Ninja
      > and Superspies.
      >
      > Thanks,
      >
      > MikeM
      >
      > > -----Original Message-----
      > > From: Steve 'Doom Trooper' Karstensen [SMTP:skarsten@...]
      > > Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 1998 11:18 AM
      > > To: streetfighter@egroups.com
      > > Subject: [streetfighter] Re: Purists?
      > >
      > > I don't think the two genres mix because Street Fighter is based in
      > > high-powered action anime and martial arts movies, and World of
      > > Darkness
      > > is angsty, tragically-hip depression with superpowers. Street
      > > Fighters
      > > just can't be depressed and hip enough to fit into the World of
      > > Darkness. For that reason alone, I never saw fit to mix the two. I
      > > like them both, but it's like AD&D and Gurps Cyberpunk.
      > >
      > > EvilTyger@... wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Well, in one of the previous E-mail's, it mentioned "purists" for SF
      > > & WoD vs
      > > > those who mixed the two.
      > > >
      > > > Now the question is, how much effort do some feel it is worth and
      > > which parts
      > > > of the systems would be taken and tossed?
      > > >
      > > > I'd figure that Abilities would jump across fairly well.
      > > >
      > > > How about the Lotus line? (Kindred of the East, Demon Hunter X,
      > > etc.)
      > > >
      > > > Psi Powers, Hedge Magic, True Faith or Qiao?
      > > >
      > > > Personally, I laregly started in SF because, quite simply... it was
      > > the
      > > > closest I could get to making a "normal" human for a WoD game at the
      > > time.
      > > > (Hard to pick up books and found it in a bargain bin.)
      > > >
      > > > Of course, now I have all of WoD's Hunter & Ally books, and while
      > > the Focus
      > > > powers can be a bit unbalancing.... it largely depends on who
      > > they're being
      > > > used against. Haven't really done alot of "play testing" between
      > > them, which
      > > > may be what I'm looking for. (Although Blind Fighting and Animal
      > > Companion
      > > > have found their way into a WoD game or two.)
      > > >
      > > > If anyone managed to read through that mish mash of random thoughts,
      > > > congradulations and thank you for your patience.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      > > > [Image]
      > > >
      > > > Free Web-based e-mail groups -- www.eGroups.com
      > >
      > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      > > --
      > > Great gifts for the Holidays or birthdays or anyday for that matter
      > > Bugs Life action game, Thanksgiving Pooh, Disney videos, toys and
      > > CD-ROMs
      > > http://offers.egroups.com/click/143/5
      > >
      > > E-group home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/streetfighter
      > > Free Web-based e-mail groups by eGroups.com
      >
      > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      > [Image]
      >
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      Group: streetfighter Message: 481 From: Steve 'Doom Trooper' Karstensen Date: 12/23/1998
      Subject: Kurisumasu
      Happy Holidays to all my fellow fist-fighters; best wishes to you and
      your families and may there be much booting of head in the year to come.

      :)

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      Group: streetfighter Message: 482 From: Nelson, Christopher T Date: 12/23/1998
      Subject: Re: Purists?
      When we do crossovers, it's usually something really odd that would
      actually pull the two worlds together. The one game that stands out in
      my mind was the 'appocolypse is happening' one, which was certainly
      dark & all that, but had enough of a chance for hero-types to stand up
      & make a difference... it really was pretty neat. A-ways, in answer to
      your hex map question, well, Have you ever tried playing SF w/o a hex
      map? No, I don't reccomend it, but you'll find for the simple fights that
      you can pretty much wing them w/o the hex. We're 10 feet away? Okay,
      I jump at the fomori w/ a short kick... A-ways, my point is that if your
      GM is up to it, you can run a mixed group w/o the hex map. It usually
      helps to have a marker board or some such to mark general locations
      of everyone for large combats, thou.

      Best of luck-
      -Chris Nelson(there's too many Chris's on this list, BTW)





      > I agree to an extent. The genres between SF and WoD are really
      > different. The abilities cross over well but I havent been able to
      > cross the combat at all. What have you done for combat? SF uses the hex
      > map and WoD doesnt. I would like to hear what you guys have done (if
      > anything). I have played Vampire, Mage, and Werewolf, but SF is still
      > my favourite White Wolf game and I would love to see a Street Fighter
      > kick the crap out of a vampire or better yet, a werewolf. hehehehehehe
      >
      > Also another questions. Is there any other rpgs out there that are
      > martial arts based? I can't think of any except for Palladium's Ninja
      > and Superspies.
      >
      > Thanks,
      >
      > MikeM
      >
      > > -----Original Message-----
      > > From: Steve 'Doom Trooper' Karstensen [SMTP:skarsten@...]
      > > Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 1998 11:18 AM
      > > To: streetfighter@egroups.com
      > > Subject: [streetfighter] Re: Purists?
      > >
      > > I don't think the two genres mix because Street Fighter is based in
      > > high-powered action anime and martial arts movies, and World of
      > > Darkness
      > > is angsty, tragically-hip depression with superpowers. Street
      > > Fighters
      > > just can't be depressed and hip enough to fit into the World of
      > > Darkness. For that reason alone, I never saw fit to mix the two. I
      > > like them both, but it's like AD&D and Gurps Cyberpunk.
      > >
      > > EvilTyger@... wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Well, in one of the previous E-mail's, it mentioned "purists" for SF
      > > & WoD vs
      > > > those who mixed the two.
      > > >
      > > > Now the question is, how much effort do some feel it is worth and
      > > which parts
      > > > of the systems would be taken and tossed?
      > > >
      > > > I'd figure that Abilities would jump across fairly well.
      > > >
      > > > How about the Lotus line? (Kindred of the East, Demon Hunter X,
      > > etc.)
      > > >
      > > > Psi Powers, Hedge Magic, True Faith or Qiao?
      > > >
      > > > Personally, I laregly started in SF because, quite simply... it was
      > > the
      > > > closest I could get to making a "normal" human for a WoD game at the
      > > time.
      > > > (Hard to pick up books and found it in a bargain bin.)
      > > >
      > > > Of course, now I have all of WoD's Hunter & Ally books, and while
      > > the Focus
      > > > powers can be a bit unbalancing.... it largely depends on who
      > > they're being
      > > > used against. Haven't really done alot of "play testing" between
      > > them, which
      > > > may be what I'm looking for. (Although Blind Fighting and Animal
      > > Companion
      > > > have found their way into a WoD game or two.)
      > > >
      > > > If anyone managed to read through that mish mash of random thoughts,
      > > > congradulations and thank you for your patience.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      > > > [Image]
      > > >
      > > > Free Web-based e-mail groups -- www.eGroups.com
      > >
      > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      > > --
      > > Great gifts for the Holidays or birthdays or anyday for that matter>
      > > Bugs Life action game, Thanksgiving Pooh, Disney videos, toys and
      > > CD-ROMs
      > > http://offers.egroups.com/click/143/5
      > >
      > > E-group home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/streetfighter
      > > Free Web-based e-mail groups by eGroups.com
      >
      > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
      > Gobble up some brain food, then Yak Back in our chat room
      > See new Detective in a Jar episodes; Aladdin and Lion King comics
      > http://ads.egroups.com/click/131/1
      >
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      Group: streetfighter Message: 483 From: Steve 'Doom Trooper' Karstensen Date: 12/23/1998
      Subject: Re: Purists?
      ...not to mention that the second edition of Werewolf: the Apocalypse
      has miniatures rules for combat.

      Nelson, Christopher T wrote:
      >
      > When we do crossovers, it's usually something really odd that would
      > actually pull the two worlds together. The one game that stands out in
      > my mind was the 'appocolypse is happening' one, which was certainly
      > dark & all that, but had enough of a chance for hero-types to stand up
      > & make a difference... it really was pretty neat. A-ways, in answer to
      > your hex map question, well, Have you ever tried playing SF w/o a hex
      > map? No, I don't reccomend it, but you'll find for the simple fights that
      > you can pretty much wing them w/o the hex. We're 10 feet away? Okay,
      > I jump at the fomori w/ a short kick... A-ways, my point is that if your
      > GM is up to it, you can run a mixed group w/o the hex map. It usually
      > helps to have a marker board or some such to mark general locations
      > of everyone for large combats, thou.
      >
      > Best of luck-
      > -Chris Nelson(there's too many Chris's on this list, BTW)
      >
      > > I agree to an extent. The genres between SF and WoD are really
      > > different. The abilities cross over well but I havent been able to
      > > cross the combat at all. What have you done for combat? SF uses the hex
      > > map and WoD doesnt. I would like to hear what you guys have done (if
      > > anything). I have played Vampire, Mage, and Werewolf, but SF is still
      > > my favourite White Wolf game and I would love to see a Street Fighter
      > > kick the crap out of a vampire or better yet, a werewolf. hehehehehehe
      > >
      > > Also another questions. Is there any other rpgs out there that are
      > > martial arts based? I can't think of any except for Palladium's Ninja
      > > and Superspies.
      > >
      > > Thanks,
      > >
      > > MikeM
      > >
      > > > -----Original Message-----
      > > > From: Steve 'Doom Trooper' Karstensen [SMTP:skarsten@...]
      > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 1998 11:18 AM
      > > > To: streetfighter@egroups.com
      > > > Subject: [streetfighter] Re: Purists?
      > > >
      > > > I don't think the two genres mix because Street Fighter is based in
      > > > high-powered action anime and martial arts movies, and World of
      > > > Darkness
      > > > is angsty, tragically-hip depression with superpowers. Street
      > > > Fighters
      > > > just can't be depressed and hip enough to fit into the World of
      > > > Darkness. For that reason alone, I never saw fit to mix the two. I
      > > > like them both, but it's like AD&D and Gurps Cyberpunk.
      > > >
      > > > EvilTyger@... wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > Well, in one of the previous E-mail's, it mentioned "purists" for SF
      > > > & WoD vs
      > > > > those who mixed the two.
      > > > >
      > > > > Now the question is, how much effort do some feel it is worth and
      > > > which parts
      > > > > of the systems would be taken and tossed?
      > > > >
      > > > > I'd figure that Abilities would jump across fairly well.
      > > > >
      > > > > How about the Lotus line? (Kindred of the East, Demon Hunter X,
      > > > etc.)
      > > > >
      > > > > Psi Powers, Hedge Magic, True Faith or Qiao?
      > > > >
      > > > > Personally, I laregly started in SF because, quite simply... it was
      > > > the
      > > > > closest I could get to making a "normal" human for a WoD game at the
      > > > time.
      > > > > (Hard to pick up books and found it in a bargain bin.)
      > > > >
      > > > > Of course, now I have all of WoD's Hunter & Ally books, and while
      > > > the Focus
      > > > > powers can be a bit unbalancing.... it largely depends on who
      > > > they're being
      > > > > used against. Haven't really done alot of "play testing" between
      > > > them, which
      > > > > may be what I'm looking for. (Although Blind Fighting and Animal
      > > > Companion
      > > > > have found their way into a WoD game or two.)
      > > > >
      > > > > If anyone managed to read through that mish mash of random thoughts,
      > > > > congradulations and thank you for your patience.
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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      Group: streetfighter Message: 484 From: EvilTyger@aol.com Date: 12/23/1998
      Subject: Re: Purists?
      In a message dated 12/23/98 9:30:53 AM Pacific Standard Time,
      skarsten@... writes:

      << ...not to mention that the second edition of Werewolf: the Apocalypse
      has miniatures rules for combat. >>

      As well as the ST screen for Werewolf including a Hex map as well.

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      Group: streetfighter Message: 485 From: Micheal Duynhoven Date: 12/23/1998
      Subject: Re: Purists?
      > commercial martial arts RPGs include;
      >
      > Feng Shui (I think, as it's based on action/kung fu movies)
      > Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (mostly guns but a lot of unarmed combat)
      > Ninjas & Superspies

      Do not forget - Hong Kong Action Cinema!

      I am still looking for the main book!

      Micheal Duynhoven
      jarlath@...


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      Group: streetfighter Message: 486 From: EvilTyger@aol.com Date: 12/23/1998
      Subject: Re: Purists?
      This particular arguement tends to surface quite a bit between various lines
      of the WoD System. The reference is toward "the melting pot" approach to a
      crossing over the games.

      In fact... if you pick up some of the Year of the Lotus books (SF should
      contain enough of the Storyteller System to utilize them) you might see more
      than a few elements of "high-powered action anime". In fact, one of the oddest
      things I noted was that the Werewolf book (Hengeyokai) was the one that gave
      the least additional power ( although in a straight up fight, Werecreatures
      kick ass without the additional powers ;-P )

      Generally, what my own group does is that they start with a standard game
      (normally Vampire, from a Cammarilla angle) and if someone wants to play
      something else, try to work it in. (Some of the better players working their
      characters around the game rather than trying to force us to do the reverse).

      The two itemes I perhaps have the most problems with are mechanical in nature.
      Especially with the newer Combat rules in VtM Revised. (Some of which looks
      good, others of which don't quite from an SF perspective.)



      In a message dated 12/23/98 8:50:15 AM Pacific Standard Time,
      skarsten@... writes:

      << I don't think the two genres mix because Street Fighter is based in
      high-powered action anime and martial arts movies, and World of Darkness
      is angsty, tragically-hip depression with superpowers. Street Fighters
      just can't be depressed and hip enough to fit into the World of
      Darkness. For that reason alone, I never saw fit to mix the two. I
      like them both, but it's like AD&D and Gurps Cyberpunk. >>

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      Group: streetfighter Message: 487 From: Morgado, Mike Date: 12/23/1998
      Subject: Multiple opponents
      One thing that annoys me about SF is dealing with multiple opponents.
      When a fighter almost gets beat by three ninjas (the ones in the back of
      the main book) it kinda puts a crimp in everyones fun. And its annoying
      seeing everyone doing spinning foot sweep. Right MikeD?

      MikeM

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      Group: streetfighter Message: 488 From: Wayne French Date: 12/23/1998
      Subject: Re: Purists?
      I ahve been reading what you all have been posting, and i disagree, i
      currently run a Street Fighter game intertwined with several WoD
      aspects.

      Think of the posibilities, a Wu Shu fighter with Celerity, or Sanbo
      Wrestler with Fortitude. Or Ler Drit with any of them!!!! Currently, I
      have introduced a race of demons in my game that betrayed M. Bison just
      when the PC's were able to try to beat him, they already each beat a
      single world warrior each( There are 6 of them), and when the demons did
      so Bison became a mortal with Vampire Disiplines. they barely made it
      out with there lives. some major changes occured in my game at this
      point, those who Bison wanted as loyal followers he brought over into
      his half-vampiric state, but they still had all the faults of the
      kindred, except for a few(ie Sagat, Balrog, Vega) they some how retained
      their control and do not (like Bison) have any kindred flaws.

      Recently found more types of WoD character types and I am currently
      allowing new characters to be from one of these other game types.
      although they lack in the hand to hand combat department(streetfighters
      excell here), they do have other unknown or unseen applications that a
      bright PC could figure out.

      Well i said my piece

      if any one has anything to comment please do, or if you have WoD info,
      please pass it along.

      By the way thankyou all for sending me the info I requested, does anyone
      have the ***WARRIOR'S WORLD*** book? The web site I had seen it on
      vanished . . .


      ______________________________________________________

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      Group: streetfighter Message: 489 From: Wayne French Date: 12/23/1998
      Subject: Re: Purists?
      also I recently pick up a White Wolf book called Combat, and it has a
      way to incorperate all the WoD to Street Fighter

      ______________________________________________________

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      Group: streetfighter Message: 490 From: Morgado, Mike Date: 12/23/1998
      Subject: Re: Purists?
      I really like your game your running. Sounds really interesting. But how
      do you handle the combat? For celerity for example, Are they allowed to
      do an extra move for every dot they have in cel? Potence would work the
      sameway. Im just curious.

      Thanks

      MikeM

      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: Wayne French [SMTP:gero24@...]
      > Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 1998 3:07 PM
      > To: streetfighter@egroups.com
      > Subject: [streetfighter] Re: Purists?
      >
      > I ahve been reading what you all have been posting, and i disagree, i
      > currently run a Street Fighter game intertwined with several WoD
      > aspects.
      >
      > Think of the posibilities, a Wu Shu fighter with Celerity, or Sanbo
      > Wrestler with Fortitude. Or Ler Drit with any of them!!!! Currently, I
      >
      > have introduced a race of demons in my game that betrayed M. Bison
      > just
      > when the PC's were able to try to beat him, they already each beat a
      > single world warrior each( There are 6 of them), and when the demons
      > did
      > so Bison became a mortal with Vampire Disiplines. they barely made it
      > out with there lives. some major changes occured in my game at this
      > point, those who Bison wanted as loyal followers he brought over into
      > his half-vampiric state, but they still had all the faults of the
      > kindred, except for a few(ie Sagat, Balrog, Vega) they some how
      > retained
      > their control and do not (like Bison) have any kindred flaws.
      >
      > Recently found more types of WoD character types and I am currently
      > allowing new characters to be from one of these other game types.
      > although they lack in the hand to hand combat
      > department(streetfighters
      > excell here), they do have other unknown or unseen applications that a
      >
      > bright PC could figure out.
      >
      > Well i said my piece
      >
      > if any one has anything to comment please do, or if you have WoD info,
      >
      > please pass it along.
      >
      > By the way thankyou all for sending me the info I requested, does
      > anyone
      > have the ***WARRIOR'S WORLD*** book? The web site I had seen it on
      > vanished . . .
      >
      >
      > ______________________________________________________
      >
      > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      > --
      > Leave the web behind and enter the magic world of Disney
      > Loads of games, activities, and all your favorite characters in one
      > place
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      >
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      Group: streetfighter Message: 491 From: Steve 'Doom Trooper' Karstensen Date: 12/23/1998
      Subject: Re: Purists?
      this reminds me of the fact that I've been pondering something.

      Has anyone seen Night Warriors: Darkstalkers' Revenge? It's a *very*
      good anime series (four tapes in all), and throughout the whole thing I
      kept thinking "Damn, this setting would make a perfect SF campaign".

      I've adapted Felicia to Street Fighter, too. One of these days I'll put
      her stats on Contenders TNG.

      Morgado, Mike wrote:
      >
      > I really like your game your running. Sounds really interesting. But how
      > do you handle the combat? For celerity for example, Are they allowed to
      > do an extra move for every dot they have in cel? Potence would work the
      > sameway. Im just curious.
      >
      > Thanks
      >
      > MikeM
      >
      > > -----Original Message-----
      > > From: Wayne French [SMTP:gero24@...]
      > > Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 1998 3:07 PM
      > > To: streetfighter@egroups.com
      > > Subject: [streetfighter] Re: Purists?
      > >
      > > I ahve been reading what you all have been posting, and i disagree, i
      > > currently run a Street Fighter game intertwined with several WoD
      > > aspects.
      > >
      > > Think of the posibilities, a Wu Shu fighter with Celerity, or Sanbo
      > > Wrestler with Fortitude. Or Ler Drit with any of them!!!! Currently, I
      > >
      > > have introduced a race of demons in my game that betrayed M. Bison
      > > just
      > > when the PC's were able to try to beat him, they already each beat a
      > > single world warrior each( There are 6 of them), and when the demons
      > > did
      > > so Bison became a mortal with Vampire Disiplines. they barely made it
      > > out with there lives. some major changes occured in my game at this
      > > point, those who Bison wanted as loyal followers he brought over into
      > > his half-vampiric state, but they still had all the faults of the
      > > kindred, except for a few(ie Sagat, Balrog, Vega) they some how
      > > retained
      > > their control and do not (like Bison) have any kindred flaws.
      > >
      > > Recently found more types of WoD character types and I am currently
      > > allowing new characters to be from one of these other game types.
      > > although they lack in the hand to hand combat
      > > department(streetfighters
      > > excell here), they do have other unknown or unseen applications that a
      > >
      > > bright PC could figure out.
      > >
      > > Well i said my piece
      > >
      > > if any one has anything to comment please do, or if you have WoD info,
      > >
      > > please pass it along.
      > >
      > > By the way thankyou all for sending me the info I requested, does
      > > anyone
      > > have the ***WARRIOR'S WORLD*** book? The web site I had seen it on
      > > vanished . . .
      > >
      > >
      > > ______________________________________________________
      > >
      > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      > > --
      > > Leave the web behind and enter the magic world of Disney
      > > Loads of games, activities, and all your favorite characters in one
      > > place
      > > http://ads.egroups.com/click/133/2
      > >
      > > E-group home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/streetfighter
      > > Free Web-based e-mail groups by eGroups.com
      >
      > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      > [Image]
      >
      > E-group home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/streetfighter
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      Group: streetfighter Message: 492 From: Wayne French Date: 12/23/1998
      Subject: Re: Purists?
      Yeah i use full vampire stuff against my PC's , man it makes them think
      harder though.

      example:

      a PC named Camron(Stlye:Brawler) has 6/5/5 str/dex/stam 3/3/3
      chr/manip/appr 5/4/5 int/wits/perc
      6/6/5/5/4/2 P/K/B/G/A/F 22 HEALTH(Huge Size, and Iron Fist merit)

      he beat Sagat, barely befor, after the darkening( its what i called it)
      he was almost killed by sagat( celerity 3). thats 3 extra non-chi or
      willpower attack per combat turn at a cost of will pwer or chi for every
      extra attack. Sagat open with a Tiger Knee > round house > round house >
      round house (ouch!!) you do the math oh bye the way whan you become a
      half-vamp or the darkening you gain 3 physical attributes and 3
      disipline points sagats new stats were 8/5/6 physical. i think it was
      roughly around 69 points of damage give or take.

      if the whole team didnt jump in i would've hade sagat kill him.

      hey WoD is rough so is street fighter, time it was played so, also i
      have firearms in my games, but no street fighter would use one on
      another streetfighter. Although Guile may against M.Bison (heh heh heh)

      thays my genre adapt of die



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      Group: streetfighter Message: 493 From: Wayne French Date: 12/23/1998
      Subject: Re: WoD conversion ; it's ok i guess but check it out it's long
      i found an artical in WoD Archive

      Warrior: The Fight
      By Eric Woodward (ewoodward@...) with extensive revisions by
      Brooks Hough
      Author's Note
      This past summer, I came across the rules for "Street Fighter: the
      Role-Playing Game." I brought them, noting that they were made by White
      Wolf, and hoping that I could create a new character class for my World
      of Darkness campaigns. What I found inside, though, was not what I had
      thought. The game had no relation whatsoever to any of the World of
      Darkness games, and far too much of it would have totally unbalanced my
      games altogether. Nevertheless, I bought the "Player's Guide, " intent
      on straighteneing out the system and making it playable.
      Now, four-and-a-half months later, I finally bought the WoD Combat book,
      which borrows heavily from the ideas presented in SF, but doesn't make
      them so cartoonish. So, with the Combat book as a base, I have
      endeavored to make a new game out of what I liked in SF (mainly Focus
      and such), combined with what's listed in the Combat book (other
      maneuvers, etc.). And this game is called Warrior.
      However, these rules have not been play-tested yet. They have been
      through numerous revisions, and several characters have been designed
      and pitted against other WoD creatures, but no actual play-testing has
      occured. So, if you do play-test them, then please send me mail and tell
      me what works and what doesn't. That way, I can correct the major
      problems, re-release it, and everyone can be happy. You can find my
      address at the end of this document.
      Legal Stuff
      These rules are in the public domain and may be copied and distributed.
      The use of "Storyteller," "World Of Darkness," "Street Fighter," and the
      quotes, names, and concepts there from is not a challenge to the
      ownership of the rights to the companies associated with these works.
      The use of them in this set of rules is without permission.
      The "World Of Darkness" and "Storyteller" series of role-playing games
      are published by White Wolf Inc. "Street Fighter" is a registered
      trademark of Capcom.
      The Fight
      "And now for a taste of things to come. . ."
      -- Shang Tsung, Mortal Kombat
      Rachel could hear her pursuers catching up to her. Street urchins, she
      thought, out looking for a gang-bang. She tried to evade them, but the
      city was unfamiliar to her, especially at night. Nonetheless, she felt
      that they would certainly catch her if she didn't do something soon, so
      she picked a random street, and turned the corner.
      She hadn't gone five feet when she realized the mistake that she had
      made. The alley dead-ended into a brick wall after about 20 feet, and
      there was nothing she could see to hide behind. She spun around, hoping
      to make it out before the gang caught up to her, but they cut her off at
      the entrance. For the first time she could clearly see them. There were
      three of them -- two were dressed in leather and face-paint, with fairly
      decent builds and guns strapped on their sides. It was the middle one,
      though, which really caught her attention. Although he just seemed like
      another Goth, with pale skin, jet black hair, a leather jacket, and army
      boots, something seemed inherently odd about him. He was overly tall,
      moved surprisingly gracefully, and carried himself with an aura of
      superiority that she had never seen before.
      Franticly, she scanned the walls, searching for a fire escape or ladder,
      but it was to no avail. As she backed towards the end of the alley, she
      began wondering why she had even returned to this city after all these
      years. After all, it was in an alley just like this that her parents had
      been killed so many years before, and if Master Cho hadn't been there,
      she would have undoubtedly joined them.
      Master Cho -- the name alone brought up a reservoir of strength and
      courage in her. He had trained her how to live, how to think, and, when
      necessary, how to fight. So, focusing on her enemies, she took a deep
      breath and readied herself for battle.
      The two thugs walked towards her, making comments about how much fun
      they were going to have, while the tall one just watched. The one on her
      left tried to grab her arm, but she spun quickly, delivering a right
      hook straight to his face. As he staggered, the one on her right ran
      behind her and tried to grab her with both arms. Just when he got a
      hold, she kicked off with both of her legs, throwing herself back
      towards the wall, and smashing her assailant into the bricks. The stun
      broke his grip, and gave her a clear look at the other thug, who was
      pulling the gun from its holster. Thinking quickly, she spun, grabbing
      the arm of the stunned thug, and hurtled him towards his accomplice, who
      accidently shot him dead. As the thiug with the gun tried to figure out
      what had just happened, she leapt into the air, focusing her entire body
      weight into her foot, and landing on his head, snapping his neck.
      She turned to face the leader, but he was gone. Suddenly, she heard him
      speak from right behind her. "That was amazing." She jumped forwards,
      spinning around to face him in a battle ready stance. He smiled lightly.
      "Now, try me on."
      She thought she was ready for anything, but he moved so fast that she
      didn't even see his fist coming as it landed suqarely in her chest,
      sending her careening back into the wall. "What -- are -- you," she
      asked, gasping for air. He bared his fangs, letting out a growl. "I'm
      the predator, and you're the prey."
      Rachel stared at the ground, one hand clutching her chest, the other
      barely keeping her on her knees. She knew she couldn't beat him with
      just her hand-to-hand skills. She could feel the hate welling up inside
      of her as she knew that it was time to use the power. She used all of
      her hate and all of her anger and focused them into her fists until they
      were literally burning with rage. Now she was ready.
      The Vampire slowly reached down and, grabbing her hair, pulled her to
      her feet. At that moment, she reached up with her burning fists and
      grabbed his head by the hair, setting it ablaze. He grabbed his head,
      trying to put out the fire, but instead catching his hands on fire too.
      She backed away from him, channeling her rage into a huge ball of fire
      which she then threw at the burning creature. The heat proved to be too
      much for him and, as the fireball hit him, he exploded into tiny,
      flaming pieces all over the alley.
      "Prey on that, asshole," she said, before finally turning and walking
      away.
      The Warriors
      "I am immortal, I have inside me blood of kings,
      I have no rival, no man can be my equal."
      -- Queen, Princes of the Universe
      What is a warrior? There are many different ideas for who a warrior is.
      Some characters are trained fighters who've spent their lives in
      temples, always learning that they can be better. Some are ex-soldiers,
      veterans who train all of their lives to defend their country, only to
      find they don't know how to live outside of the military when they quit.
      And some never wanted to fight in the first place -- unfortunate
      characters born with freakish deformities and wondrous powers.
      Deciding what kind of warrior a player wants to play is the first step
      in character creation. As with all Storyteller games, nature and
      demeanor are the next things to decide, and these are almost always
      heavily influenced by the warrior's concept. Regardless, because of the
      diversity of warriors, a player can choose virtually any concept,
      nature, or demeanor for his character.
      The stats for warriors differ slightly from those of standard WoD games.
      Their beginning stats are:
      Attributes: 7/5/3
      Regular Abilities: 9/7/4
      Combat Abilitiy Points: 8
      Focus: 1
      Backgrounds: 7
      Chi / Willpower: 7
      Power Points: 2 x Combat Rating
      Focus Points: 2 x Focus Rating
      Freebie Points: 17
      All warriors study one main style, and all of their beginning combat
      maneuvers must come from this style (Note: After the game has begun, a
      character can learn from anyone who is willing to teach him, and can
      learn any style he can find a mentor for). The only exceptions to this
      are weapon-based fighters, who may choose both an "unarmed" and "armed"
      style to begin with. The only styles that cannot be learned are Do,
      Kailindo, Kibatsumejutsu, and Klaive Dueling, except in rare instances
      (see below).

      Explanations
       Warriors have a maximum rating of 5 for Attributes and
      Abilities (both combat and non-combat). Each Attribute also begins with
      one dot in it.
       There are two kinds of Abilities: Regular Abilities and Combat
      Abilities. Combat Abilities are Athletics, Brawl, Dodge, and Melee, and
      they are recorded apart from Regular Abilties. So, regardless of what a
      player chooses for her warrior's primary, secondary, or tertiary
      abilities, she still has 8 points total to spend on her four Combat
      Abilities.
       Note: Firearms, although definitely combat-oriented, is
      considered to be a Regular Ability, not a Combat Ability. This is
      because a man with no true combat abilities can easily fire a gun.
       Combat Points are what one uses to buy combat abilities (the
      afore mentioned Dodge, Brawl, Athletics, and Melee). This is something
      like the system used for Street Fighter, except that this seems to be
      more balanced (when used in conjunction with other WoD games).
       Focus is a 1 - 5 point trait which is both used to determine
      what abilities one can learn (anyone with a Focus of 3 or more can learn
      abilities listed below which have a "Focus 3" prerequisite, etc.) as
      well as how much Chi a warrior gets back after an hour of meditation
      (roll a number of dice equal to the warrior's Focus rating, difficulty
      6, and the fighter gets back one point of Chi per success, up to his
      maximum). It should be noted that Focus powers are what set warriors
      apart from normal humans. Anyone can learn Karate at a nearby dojo, but
      to throw a fireball at someone -- that's something else. Focus powers
      can be derived from (although are not necessarily limited to) long lost
      ninja clan secrets ("ninja magic"), latent mutant powers, or even freak
      accidents involving microwaves and non-dairy creamers. The possibilities
      are endless.
       Although Backgrounds are used the same way, not all backgrounds
      are applicable to warriors, and there are some new ones (or old ones
      with new twists). For a complete list, refer to "Special Features,"
      below (the same thing goes for merits and flaws).
       A player has seven points to divide between his Chi (which
      powers his special abilities) and Willpower (which does the same thing
      it does in all WoD games). These values can be increased later with
      freebie points.
       Combat power points are determined as per the instructions in
      the WoD Combat book. That is, two power points per point in combat
      rating. Plus, power points can only be spent on maneuvers in that combat
      skill (i.e. a rating of 3 in Athletics gives a warrior 6 Athletics power
      points to spend on Athletics maneuvers. However, these points cannot be
      spent on any other types of maneuvers, such as Brawl maneuvers).
       Focus power points are used to buy Focus based maneuvers. Just
      as a warrior gets two power points per point of combat rating, so he
      gets 2 Focus power points per point of Focus rating. In the beginning,
      each additional point in the Focus costs 8 freebie points, regardless of
      previous rating. However, once the game has begun, different rules are
      used (see "Experience", below).
       All warriors begin with one automatic Focus maneuver, called
      "Regeneration." For a description of this maneuver, see the Master List
      of Additional Maneuvers, below.
       Freebie Point Costs
      Trait Cost per dot

      Focus Rating: 8

      Attributes: 5

      Attributes: 5

      Combat Abilities: 4

      Non-Combat Abilities: 2

      Willpower: 1

      Chi: 1

      Backgrounds: 1

      Buying Combat Maneuvers
      "It takes a minute to learn,
      but a lifetime to master."
      -- old commercial for the game Othello
      All characters begin with the 8 Basic combat maneuvers listed in the WoD
      Combat book at no cost. Past that, they have to spend points to get
      Advanced maneuvers. Also, since some styles are punch-based, while
      others are kick- or grab-based, when the player chooses what style his
      warrior will use to fight, he can also choose a "favorite attack." This
      favorite attack should be one of the categories of Brawl (namely, either
      Punch, Kick, Grab, or Throw). Every time he buys a maneuvers that uses
      his favorite attack, the point cost is one less than that listed, never
      going below 1. (i.e. Ralph wants his warrior to fight with Kung Fu.
      Since there are many forms of Kung Fu, he chooses "grab" to be his
      warrior's favorite attack. As a result, he will have to pay normal costs
      for all his kick- and punch-based maneuvers, but his grab-based
      maneuvers will cost one less than listed).
      Focus based maneuvers are treated the same way, except that a warrior
      using any style can buy any Focus maneuver, as long as all other
      prerequisites are met (minimum Focus rating, additional powers, etc.).
      Use the costs listed on the Master List of Additional Maneuvers or see
      the Maneuver Creation Chart to make your own, both at the end of this
      document.

      Activation Phrase / Hand Gesture
      All Focus maneuvers can be bought an with additional restriction --
      Activation Phrase or Hand Gesture. What does this mean? In role-playing
      terms, the warrior must either say a phrase (such as an incantation) or
      wave her hands in the air in some bizarre way in order to activate the
      power. In gaming rule terms, this means a -1 from the maneuver's
      Initiative, as well as -1 from its total Focus power point cost. Note,
      however, that bound and gagged characters who buy powers with these
      restrictions generally cannot use their powers. The only way to buy this
      off is to increase the warrior's focus rating and use one of the two new
      focus power points. For example, Ralph only has 2 Focus power points
      left to spend, so he buys "Fireball" with the additional restriction
      "Hand Gesture." This brings the cost down to 2 points, but in order for
      Ralph's warrior to use it, he must perform a number of intricate hand
      gestures. Later on, when his Focus rating increases, he can use one of
      the new Focus power points to buy off that restriction, indicating that
      his warrior has had enough practice with the power that he doesn't need
      to gesture anymore. The only Maneuvers which cannot be bought with this
      restriction are Dim Mak and Chi Kung Healing.
      Combat
      "I came here to chew bubble-gum and kick ass,
      and I'm all out of bubble-gum."
      -- Nada, They Live
      Most combat is treated just like it is in the WoD Combat book (look
      there for information on stun damage vs. regular damage). Only the
      differences will be listed here.
       While most hand-to-hand combat maneuvers do stun damage, all
      Focus maneuvers are assumed to do kill damage, except for some, which do
      Aggravated damage (see below).
       Additionally, a player can spend a point of chi before
      attacking his opponent in hand-to-hand combat to make the damage done
      become kill damage instead of just stun.
       Damage is treated slightly different, too. When stun damage is
      done to a warrior, mark off the appropriate number of boxes in the stun
      damage column. When kill damage is done to them, mark off a box in both
      stun and kill for each point of damage inflicted. When aggravated damage
      is done to them, mark off a point of stun damage as regular, and use a
      different symbol to mark off kill damage in the kill damage column.
       Warriors are tougher than most humans and even some
      supernaturals. For this reason, most warriors are able to keep on
      fighting long after they have filled up their stun damage column. For a
      warrior to keep fighting past his stun damage, he must make a willpower
      roll vs. a difficulty of (3 plus 1 for every point of kill damage he has
      taken). For example, Jimmy has gotten in a fight with an upset Lupine.
      Over the last couple rounds, Jimmy has taken all of the stun damage he
      can, plus 2 points of kill damage. In order for Jimmy to even stay on
      his feet this round, he must make a willpower roll vs. a difficulty of 5
      (3 + 2 points of kill damage).
      Experience
      Experience is gained just like any other WoD game. However, it is
      recommended that, in addition to points for good role-playing and such,
      players also get experience points for winning fights.
      Below is a listing of the regular experience points necessary to
      increase various traits:
      Trait Cost

      New Ability 3

      Willpower current rating

      Chi current rating

      Abilities current rating x 2

      Attributes current rating x 4

      Focus current rating x 8

      Warriors and Supernaturals
      "Say good-bye to all of this,
      and hello to oblivion."
      -- Riff-Raff, Rocky Horror Picture Show
      Incorporating Warrior into your current WoD game should be fairly
      simple. Just like everything else in WoD, warriors have their own
      agenda, and their own battles to fight. Listed below are some important
      things to keep in mind when mixing supernaturals and warriors.
       If a vampire tries to dominate a warrior, the warrior may add
      his focus to the difficulty of the vampire's roll. This is because Focus
      maneuvers require a great deal of mental strength, quite possibly enough
      to fend off a vampire's mind attacks.
       Because of their nature, warriors are considered to be
      Awakened, even if they don't know it -- they do not cause Paradox
      backlash to happen when they witness an act of magic, and they are
      immune to the delirium. More importantly, though, Focus maneuvers and
      other uses of chi do not attract Paradox. One might consider them to be
      a new sub-class of Hedge Magick (if you need an explanation why), or one
      might just consider them "Awakened to a different path."
       Most warriors don't deal much with the Umbra -- a couple have
      managed to converse with Wraiths while in deep meditation, and some
      teleportation powers send warriors into the near Umbra, but neither of
      these happens very much. If the GM wants to allow his players to
      converse with the dead, he should use their character's Focus ratings as
      a base, and go from there (personally, I wouldn't, but I don't like
      Wraiths to begin with). For more information on teleporting, see the
      "Teleport" maneuver, in the Master List of Additional maneuvers.
       Just as damage caused by their fists is usually stun damage,
      all damage caused by their Focus powers is kill damage, not Aggravated
      damage. Since different creatures take aggravated damage from different
      kinds of attacks (see the table in WoD Combat, pg. 13), only attacks of
      an aggravated nature do aggravated damage (i.e. a biochemical attack
      would cause agg. damage for a Garou and not for a Kindred). Warriors are
      not exempt from taking aggravated damage, either. They take aggravated
      damage from some magicks, and the claws and teeth of supernaturals, just
      like Mages. Similarly, the healing time is as per Mages.
      Stereotypes (How Warriors See Supernaturals)
      Garou: They fight for the earth by killing off all those who would save
      it. Avoid at all costs.
      Kindred: They treat us like meat, and slaughter us at their whim. We
      should return them to their graves.
      Mages: These sorcerers are more powerful than anyone knows -- including
      themselves. This is especially true for the Akashic Brothers, although
      they hardly appear to be Mages at all.
      Immortals: Who?
      Wraiths: The dead should stay that way.
      Changelings: Insane and useless.
      Scanners: Very powerful, but far too temperamental.
      How Supernaturals See Warriors
      Garou: The Wyrm has tainted far too many of them. Even still, some seek
      to save the Earth. They had just better not get in our way.
      Kindred: They taste better than regular mortals. Fit only to be drank
      from and discarded.
      Akashic Brotherhood: Many of them have trained with us. They are among
      the most honorable of all.
      Other Mages: Maybe they should just join the brothers.
      Immortals: Who?
      Wraiths: Some of us have spoken with them, while others have fought
      them. Our paths rarely cross, though, as we are dead and they are not.
      Changelings: They're too serious. BO-RING!
      Scanners; They do with their bodies what we do with our minds.
      Special Features
      "I am Kato, but you will come to know me as death."
      -- Kato, Doomed Megalopolis

      SF Backgrounds
      Elementals (or "Elementalists")
      Totally up to the individual GM, but I don't like them. They seem to be
      too powerful, and if you want to play a character here to save the
      earth, I'd just use Garou.
      Cyborg
      If a character wants to be 'borged (like Kano or Jax), that is a
      superficial item. It does not alter point costs in any way, it merely
      becomes part of that character's concept. If the player wants his
      'borged warrior to be able to launch missiles from his underarms, treat
      them like fireballs, and have at it. In order to get an extra Health
      Level, one must take the Reinfoced Body merit (see below) Additionally,
      cyborgs who wish to learn Tooth and Claw maneuvers must take the Tooth
      and Claw merit (see below).
      Hybrid
      If a player wants to play a half-gila-monster/half-human, then so be it.
      But, just like Cyborgs, it does not alter point costs in any ways. It
      merely becomes part of that character's concept. Additionally, hybrids
      who wish to learn Tooth and Claw maneuvers must take the Tooth and Claw
      merit (see below).

      Appropriate Merits
      Psychological
      Code of Honor (1 pt.), Higher Purpose (1 pt.)
      Mental
      Common Sense (1 pt.), Concentration (1 pt.), Lightning Calculator (1
      pt.), Eidetic Memory (2 pt.), Iron Will (3 pt.), Self Confident (5 pt.)
      Awareness
      Acute Senses (1 pt.)
      Aptitudes
      Animal Magnetism (1 pt.), Ambidextrous (1 pt.), Computer Aptitude (1
      pt.), Crack Driver 1 pt.) Mechanical Aptitude (1 pt.), Perfect Balance
      (3 pt.), Jack-of-All-Trades (5 pt.)
      Supernatural
      Past Life (1 - 5pt.), True Love (1 pt.), Medium (2 pt.), Danger Sense (2
      pt.), Faerie Affinity (2 pt.), Spirit Mentor (3 pt.), Companion* (3
      pt.), Luck (3 pt.), Unbondable (4 pt.), Spark of Life (5 pt.), Guardian
      Angel (6 pt.), True Faith (7 pt.)
      Martial Arts Ties
      (Mage Ties that can be redirected at Martial Artists) - Boon (1 - 3pt.),
      Prestigious Mentor (1 pt.), Reputation (2 pt.)
      Mortal Society
      Black Market Ties (1 - 5pt.), Judicial Ties (2 pt.), Mansion (3 pt.),
      Media Ties (2 pt.), Nightclub (2 pt.), Church Ties (3 pt.), Corporate
      Ties (3 pt.), Entertainment Ties (3 pt.), Police Ties (3 pt.), Political
      Ties (3 pt.), Underworld Ties (3 pt.), Coporation CEO (5 pt.)
      Physical
      Double-Jointed (1 pt.), Huge Size (4 pt.)
      *Only characters with Vampire Companion may learn Kibatsumejutsu. Only
      characters with Werewolf Companion may learn Kailindo and Klaive
      Dueling.
      Only characters with Mage Companion (Akashic Brother) may learn Do.

      Appropriate Flaws
      Psychological
      Curiosity (2 pt.), Addiction (1 - 3pt.), Complusion (1 pt.), Dark Secret
      (1 pt.), Intolerance (1 pt.), Nightmares (1 pt.), Phobia - Mild (1 pt.),
      Overconfident (1 pt.), Shy (1 pt.), Speech Impediment (1 pt.), Sadism /
      Masochism (2 pt.), Obsession (2 pt.), Vengeance (2 pt.), Flashbacks (3
      pt.), Driving Goal (3 pt.), Hatred (3 pt.), Lifesaver (3 pt.), Phobia -
      Severe (3 pt.)
      Mental
      Amnesia (2 pt.), Confused (2 pt.), Absent-Minded (3 pt.)
      Awareness
      Color Blindness (1 pt.), Hard of Hearing (1 pt.), Bad Sight (2 pt.),
      Deaf (4 pt.), Blind (6 pt.)
      Aptitudes
      Age (1 pt.)
      Supernatural
      Throwback (1 - 5pt.), Cursed (1 - 5pt.), Bard's Tongue (1 pt.), Primal
      Marks (2 pt.), Haunted (3 pt.), Psychic Vampire (5 pt.), Dark Fate (5
      pt.)
      Martial Art Ties
      Enemy (1 - 5pt.), Infamous Mentor (1 pt.), Insane Mentor (1 pt.),
      Mentor's Resentment (1 pt.), Twisted Apprenticeship (1 pt.), Diabolical
      Mentor (2 pt.), Notoriety (3 pt.)
      Mortal Society
      Ward (3 pt.), Hunted (4 pt.)
      Physical
      Allergic (1 - 4pt.), Asthma (1 pt.), Short (1 pt.), Disfigured (2 pt.),
      Child (3 pt.), Deformity (3 pt.), Lame (3 pt.), One Arm (3 pt.), Mute (4
      pt.), Parapalegic (6 pt.)

      New Merits
      Dedicated Martial Artist (7 pt.)
      This warrior has spent his entire life training in the martial arts.
      Therefore, he only pays 1/2 of the listed costs to improve all combat
      abilities (he doesn't start with any more, they just increase faster).
      There is a downside to this merit. Living in a temple does not make for
      a socially-well-developed person, and he may have trouble fitting in
      with other warriors. For a good example of how a dedicated Martial
      Artist might react, watch the old TV show, Kung Fu.
      Reinforced Body (4 pt.)
      This merit means that the warrior has an extra health level of damage,
      and his similar to Huge Size. The player must find some kind of
      justification for why his warrior has an additional health level, be it
      cybernetic enhancements, mutant healing factor, or multiple internal
      organs. Regardless, this merit cannot be combined with Huge Size.
      Tooth and Claw (4 pt.)
      The warrior with this merit possesses teeth and claws. Although these do
      not do aggravated damage, they always do kill damage. Also, characters
      with this merit may learn Tooth and Claw maneuvers, although they have
      to justify why they have teeth and/or claws.

      New Abilities
      Style Lore (Knowledge)
      With this skill a warrior may, upon watching an opponent, figure out
      what fighting style that opponent is using, as well as know a little bit
      about that style.
      * Student: You know not to let a Sanbo fighter grab you.

      ** College: You can tell the difference between Kickboxing and Kung Fu.

      *** Masters: You know about each styles' different beliefs.

      **** Doctorate: You could teach a class in the principals of martial
      arts.

      ***** Scholar: A wise man atop a mountain.
      Meditation (skill)
      Admittedly, it's not new, but it does do new things for a warrior. A
      warrior with this skill may add a number of dice equal to his rating in
      this skill to his Focus roll when attempting to recover chi after
      meditating for an hour.
      Crossovers
      "I'm a man who's sick, but I got class,
      'Coz you only get respect when you're kickin' ass."
      -- KMFDM, Beast

      Garou Warriors
      The Garou are trained to use spirit powers, not chi. This does not mean
      that Garou don't fight warriors -- some of them like the challenge of
      fighting an awakened being (other than those stuffy Akashic Brothers or
      Wyrm-spawned Fomori), and many a warrior has seeked out a Garou, trying
      to prove how tough he is.

      Kindred Warriors
      Vampires cannot be warriors, and warriors cannot be embraced with their
      Focus powers intact. Just like Mages, they lose their mortal powers with
      their mortal death. The presence of blood points automatically excludes
      the presence of chi (which also prevents them from being ghouled).

      Mage Warriors
      Warriors cannot become Mages (they have already been awakened) nor can
      Mages become warriors (they can learn fighting maneuvers, but they can't
      seem to get past that nasty Paradox thing...) Warriors can learn Do
      (with the help of an Akashic Brother), and Mages can learn simple combat
      maneuvers.

      Immortal Warriors
      If a warrior dies and returns to life as an immortal, he loses all of
      his Focus powers. The reasoning for this is simple -- chi is their
      mortal life energy, and when they die, that energy is lost. Admittedly,
      it is replaced by Quickening, and if a GM wants to let Quickening be a
      replacement for chi, then so be it.

      Wraith Warriors
      Since Wraiths are dead, it's kind of hard for them to fight warriors
      regularly. The only exceptions (and very important ones, at that) are
      the Risen. This is the only time I can think of where a Wraith would be
      a warrior. On the other hand, if your players start out playing warriors
      and get them killed, then that would be something different.
      Changeling Warriors Changelings cannot be warriors (not that any have
      ever tried, but...). Warriors do occasionally scuffle with the Fae
      (usually Redcaps), however.
      New Styles
      "I got my lunchbox and I'm armed real well."
      -- Marilyn Manson, Lunchbox

      Street Fighting
      Street Fighting applies to the kind of fighting that one learns on the
      streets (duh) -- not for points in a tournament, but for your food, your
      clothes, and maybe even your very life. Street Fighting doesn't have any
      flashy maneuvers -- it's all fast, hard, and straight forward.
      Maneuvers
      All page numbers are WoD Combat
      Athletics: Jump (1, pg. 25), Shoulder Smash (2, pg. 26)
      Brawl: Punch Disarm (3, pg. 26), Ducking Punch (2, pg. 26), Ear Pop (3,
      pg. 27), Elbow Smash (2, pg. 27), Eye Rake (2, pg. 27), Haymaker (2, pg.
      28), Head Butt (1, pg. 28), Two-Fisted Smash (3, pg. 30)
      Grab Backbreaker (2, pg. 33), Bear Hug (2, pg. 30), Choke Hold (4, pg.
      30), Dislocate Limb (3, pg. 34), Fighting Hold (4, pg. 34), Knee Basher
      (3, pg. 35)
      Throws: Flying Tackle (3, pg. 37), Throw (1, pg. 37)
      Dodge: Evasions Evasion (2, pg. 42)
      Weapon Maneuvers: Bash (1, pg. 47), Disarm (2, pg. 47), Fleche (2, pg.
      47), Great Blow (1, pg. 47), Smash (2, pg. 48)
      Suggested Techniques: Blunt Weapons, Fist Loads, Blades (short),
      Flexible Weapons
      Maneuvers
      "Everybody was Kung-Fu Fighting"
      -- old Disco song
      Appendix A is a list of many different maneuvers for warriors to learn.
      If a player wants his character to use one that is not listed, there are
      two ways it can be handled.
      1) the player can just change the look and feel of a given manuever, but
      keep the listed statistics for it (i.e. Bob wants his warrior,
      NightDeath, to throw cosmic energy at his opponents. The GM rules that
      this is similar to both Sonic Boom and Fireball, and tells Bob that he
      can choose the statistics for either one to use for NightDeath's
      attack). The easiest way to remember what the maneuver is, is to write
      down both that warrior's version of it ("Cosmic Attack") followed by the
      maneuver's real name ("Fireball").
      2) The other option is for the GM to allow his players to design their
      own maneuvers using the point system listed below. The GM should always
      approve of the maneuver first, though, as a low-cost, high-potency
      maneuver could easily upset game balance and ruin everyone's fun.

      Designing Your Own Maneuvers
      Effect Cost in Power Points

      Initiative 1 point per +1 Initiative

      Accuracy 1 point per +1 Accuracy

      Damage 2 points per +1 Damage

      Move 1 point per +1 Move

      Abort Maneuver 1 point

      Aerial Maneuver 1 point

      Crouching Maneuver 1 point

      Mulitple Hits 2 points for 2 hits, 3 points for 3 hits

      Causes Knockdown or Knockback 1 point

      Sustained Hold 2 points

      Cannot be blocked 2 points

      Does special damage (i.e. Atemi Strike) 1 point

      Automatic effect (i.e. Maka Wara, Breakfall) 1-3 points

      Distance Maneuver (i.e. Fireball) 1 point

      Does kill damage 1 point

      Area Effect (i.e. Shockwave) 1 point

      Initiative -1 point per -1 Initiative

      Accuracy -1 point per -1 Accuracy

      Damage -1 point per -1 Damage

      Move -1 point per -1 Move

      Cost (Willpower, Chi, etc.) -1 point per point that must be spent

      High PreRequisites Varies (Storyteller's Discretion)

      Focus maneuver that does stun damage -1 point

      Focus maneuver can only be used with weapon -1 point

      Last Words
      "This is the end,
      My only friend, the end."
      -- The Doors, The End
      I would like to thank the following people for their unwitting
      contribution to this supplement:
       Seth Rutledge and Charles Daniels for their own SF to WoD
      conversions, upon which this was based.
       Hank Driskill and John Gavigan for inspiring me with their
      excellent "Highlander" supplement.
       Mark Janecka for inspiring me with his excellent "Scanners"
      supplement.
       B.J. Zanzibar for having the single best resource of WoD stuff
      on the web.
       Brooks Hough for his help in designing the game and
      straigtening out any questions I had about White Wolf.
       And, of course, White Wolf for creating one of the most
      adaptable gaming systems known to man (as well as for creating something
      as great as the WoD).
      APPENDIX A: Master List of Additional Maneuvers
      N = None
      Athletics Maneuvers

      Maneuver PreReqs Pts I A D M Cost Special

      Air Smash Ath. 1, Jump 2 -1 +0 +2 -1 None Aerial

      Bicycle Kick Ath. 3, Kick 3 3 -1 +0 +2 +1 1 Will Not Aerial
      Cannon Drill Ath. 5 4 +1 +0 +2 +1 1 Will Not Aerial
      Flying Body Spear Ath. 3, Jump 4 +0 -1 +3 +1 1 Will Aerial

      Flying Heel Stomp Ath. 3, Kick 2, Jump 3 +0 -1 +1 +2 1 Will Aerial

      Rolling Attack Ath. 3 4 -1 -1 +2 +3 1 Will Not Aerial


      Brawl Maneuvers - Punches

      Maneuver Prerequisite Pts I A D M Cost Special

      Hundred Hand Slap Brawl 4 3 -2 +0 +1 1 None 3 damage tests

      Spinning Clothesline Brawl 4, Ath. 3 3 +0 +0 +0 -2 1 Will Attacks
      all adjacent hexes while moving

      Turbo Spinning Clothesline Ath. 4 2 +1 +0 +0 +1 1 Will Attacks all
      adjacent hexes while moving

      Widowmaker Brawl 3, Jump, Haymaker 3 -3 +0 +3 2 None Aerial
      Haymaker



      Brawl Maneuvers - Kicks

      Maneuver Prerequisite Pts I A D M Cost Special

      Backflip Kick Brawl 2, Ath. 2 3 +0 +0 +2 2 None Move back 2 after
      kick

      Cartwheel Kick Brawl 2, Ath. 2 3 -1 -1 +1 +3 1 Will Attack while
      moving

      Double-Hit Kick Brawl 2 1 -2 +0 +1 -1 None 2 damage tests

      Double-Hit Knee Brawl 2 1 +0 +0 +0 -2 None 2 damage tests

      Flying Knee Thrust Brawl 2, Ath. 1 2 +0 -1 +2 +1 1 Will Aerial
      Forward Flip Knee Brawl 2, Ath. 2 3 -2 +0 +2 2 None Move 2 over
      opponent after kick

      Lightning Leg Brawl 4, Double-Hit Kick 3 -2 +0 +1 N None 3 damage
      tests

      Shadow Kick Brawl 3 3 +2 +0 +1 +0 1 Will does Knockdown

      Slide Kick Brawl 2, Ath. 1 2 -1 +0 +1 +1 None does Knockdown

      Stepping Front Kick Brawl 4, Ath. 3 3 +0 -1 +1 +1 1 Will 2 damage
      tests, does Knockdown

      Tornado Kick Brawl 4, Ath. 3 3 +0 +0 -1 -1 1 Will Attack while
      moving

      Wounded Knee Brawl 3 3 -2 +0 +3 -1 1 Will -2 M for 2 turns, -2 I on
      kicks for 2 turns



      Brawl Maneuvers - Grab

      Maneuver Prerequisite Pts I A D M Cost Special

      Iron Claw Brawl 5 4 +1 +0 +3 1 1 Will Sustained Hold

      Pile Driver Brawl 3, Ath. 1 3 -2 +0 +3 1 None does Knockdown

      Sleeper Hold Brawl 3 4 -1 +0 +1 1 1 Will Sustained Hold, Dazes
      after 3 rounds

      Suplex Brawl 1, Ath. 1 3 -1 +0 +2 1 None does Knockdown

      Stomach Pump Brawl 4 4 -1 +0 +2 1 None does Knockdown

      Thigh Press Brawl 2, Ath. 2 3 -1 +0 +2 1 None does Knockdown



      Brawl Maneuvers - Throws

      Maneuver Prerequisite Pts I A D M Cost Special

      Hair Throw Brawl 3, Ath. 2, Throw 4 +1 -1 +2 1 None Aerial


      Focus Maneuvers

      Maneuver Prerequisite Pts I A D M Cost Special

      Acid Breath Focus 2 2 -2 +0 T -1 1 Chi 3 damage tests (+3/0/-3)

      Balance Focus 3 3 N N N +1 None +1 Bonus to Aerial Maneuvers, always
      on

      Chi Kung Healing Focus 4, Regeneration 3 +0 N N N 1 Chi / SHL Heals
      others

      Cobra Charm Focus 2 3 -1 +0 N -1 1 Chi Sustained Hold

      Death's Visage Focus 3 3 +1 N N N 1 Chi All must roll Will vs.
      Manip. + (Focus/2)

      Dim Mak Focus 4, Chi Kung Healing 4 +0 -1 +3 +0 1 Chi See WoD Combat
      Book

      Energy Reflection

      Extendible Limbs Focus 4 3 +0 +0 +0 +0 None Length = Focus

      Fire Strike Focus 2, Flaming Fist 3 -1 +0 +2 N None Length = Focus
      / 2

      Fireball Focus 2 2 -2 +0 +2 N 1 Chi Range = Focus

      Flaming Fist Focus 2, Brawl 2 4 +0 +0 +2 +0 1 Chi Use with a Basic
      Punch Maneuver

      Flight Focus 3, Ath. 1 3 +1 N N T Text 1 Chi / Turn or 1 Chi / hour,
      Move = Stamina

      Flying Fireball Focus 3, Fireball 2 -2 +0 +2 +0 1 Chi, 1 Will
      Aerial
      Ghost Form Focus 5 5 +1 N N +0 Text Phase through matter - 2 Chi
      first turn, 1 Chi there after

      Ice Blast Focus 2 4 -2 +0 +2 N 1 Chi Range = Focus, Sus. Hold

      Improved Fireball Focus 4, Fireball 3 -1 +0 +3 N 1 Chi does
      Knockdown

      Inferno Strike Focus 4, Fireball 3 -2 +0 +4 N 2 Chi Cluster attack

      Kongjin Focus 4 4 +1 +1 +1 N 2 Chi See WoD Combat book

      Leech Focus 3, Brawl 2, Regeneration 4 +0 +0 T N 1 Chi / HL Drains
      from opponent, heals self

      Regeneration Focus 1 2 +0 N N N 1 Chi / HL Heals self

      Repeating Fireball Focus 4, Fireball 4 -2 +0 +0 N 2 Chi # = Focus,
      range = Focus

      San He Focus 4, Dodge 4 4 +2 N N N 1 Chi Focus/2 + Dodge + Stamina

      Shock Treatment Focus 3 4 +0 +0 +3 N 2 Chi does Knockdown

      Shockwave Focus 2, Brawl 4 3 +0 +0 +0 N 1 Chi does Knockdown, cone
      effect up to 3 hexes away

      Shrouded Moon Focus 2, Ath. 3 2 +0 N N -1 1 Chi Perc. + Alert. vs.
      Stealth + (Focus/2) to see

      Sonic Boom Focus 2 3 -3 +0 +3 N 1 Chi Range = Focus

      Speed of the Mongoose Focus 3 2 +2 N N -2 1 Chi Only move this
      turn, +4 to I or +6 to S next turn

      Stunning Shout Focus 2 2 +2 +0 N -2 1 Chi Sustained Hold

      Teleport Focus 4 4 +3 N N T 2 Chi Can move through Umbra (Focus)
      hexes

      Thunderclap Focus 2, Brawl 1 2 +0 +0 -3 N 1 Chi Damage to everyone
      within 3 hexes

      Toughskin Focus 2 2 +0 +0 +0 +0 1 Chi Use along with another
      maneuver, adds 2 to Soak

      if ya can make head or tails of it it does help


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      Group: streetfighter Message: 494 From: Steve 'Doom Trooper' Karstensen Date: 12/23/1998
      Subject: Re: WoD conversion ; it's ok i guess but check it out it's long
      yah, I've run across several conversions. A good place to look is BJ
      Zanzibar's World of Darkness
      (http://php.indiana.edu/~adashiel/wod/wod.html - look in the Potpourri
      section under S)... unfortunately most of these games are by WoD people
      who bought Street Fighter, skimmed it for five minutes, sighed when they
      found it wasn't angsty enough for them, and did a half-assed conversion
      they don't even take seriously.

      This is one of the better ones, though.

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      Group: streetfighter Message: 495 From: Steve 'Doom Trooper' Karstensen Date: 12/23/1998
      Subject: Re: Purists?
      interesting, even if it sounds like a power-gamer's wet dream come true.

      Zangief with Potence. ouch.

      Wayne French wrote:
      >
      > Yeah i use full vampire stuff against my PC's , man it makes them think
      > harder though.
      >
      > example:
      >
      > a PC named Camron(Stlye:Brawler) has 6/5/5 str/dex/stam 3/3/3
      > chr/manip/appr 5/4/5 int/wits/perc
      > 6/6/5/5/4/2 P/K/B/G/A/F 22 HEALTH(Huge Size, and Iron Fist merit)
      >
      > he beat Sagat, barely befor, after the darkening( its what i called it)
      > he was almost killed by sagat( celerity 3). thats 3 extra non-chi or
      > willpower attack per combat turn at a cost of will pwer or chi for every
      > extra attack. Sagat open with a Tiger Knee > round house > round house >
      > round house (ouch!!) you do the math oh bye the way whan you become a
      > half-vamp or the darkening you gain 3 physical attributes and 3
      > disipline points sagats new stats were 8/5/6 physical. i think it was
      > roughly around 69 points of damage give or take.
      >
      > if the whole team didnt jump in i would've hade sagat kill him.
      >
      > hey WoD is rough so is street fighter, time it was played so, also i
      > have firearms in my games, but no street fighter would use one on
      > another streetfighter. Although Guile may against M.Bison (heh heh heh)
      >
      > thays my genre adapt of die
      >
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      Group: streetfighter Message: 496 From: Steve 'Doom Trooper' Karstensen Date: 12/23/1998
      Subject: Re: Purists?
      more like Street Fighter converted to the WoD. :) It was an
      interesting book, but I prefer the regular, just-as-lethal methods in
      the standard WoD books for WoD combat. I can't picture vampires doing
      an Elbow Smash or knowing Thai Kickboxing.

      Demitri Maximoff notwithstanding, of course.

      Wayne French wrote:
      >
      > also I recently pick up a White Wolf book called Combat, and it has a
      > way to incorperate all the WoD to Street Fighter
      >
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      Group: streetfighter Message: 497 From: Steve 'Doom Trooper' Karstensen Date: 12/23/1998
      Subject: Re: Multiple opponents
      http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/skarsten/rules3.htm#Gangups

      Morgado, Mike wrote:
      >
      > One thing that annoys me about SF is dealing with multiple opponents.
      > When a fighter almost gets beat by three ninjas (the ones in the back of
      > the main book) it kinda puts a crimp in everyones fun. And its annoying
      > seeing everyone doing spinning foot sweep. Right MikeD?
      >
      > MikeM
      >
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      >
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      Group: streetfighter Message: 498 From: Kristofer Lundstrom Date: 12/23/1998
      Subject: Merry X-mas!
      I have just learned a very valuable lesson. If you're hooked to a
      mailing circle, never, EVER wait a few days to check your mail...

      The following discussion was heard on the evening of Dec 23rd:
      (my kid brother): - I think you've gotten... 2 mails.
      (me): - I think, more.
      (paus)
      (me): - 39 mails... OK.

      [39 mails later:]

      Goddammit! OK...

      1)

      SF and WoD aren't that good to mix in my opinion, mainly because of the
      major change in mood as Steve pointed out. I have however played one
      story of Wraith in the SF world. And it worked. But it was definitely a
      one off thing.

      I can tell you in short: One of the 3 groups I am Storytelling are all
      pissed on Shadoloo for the ordinary reasons: killed sister, killed
      father etc. So I let the players play their own deceased close ones. And
      last in the last scene we reverted back to SF and the ordinary
      characters, which the players had followed around throughout the story.
      The fighters kicked ass and suddenly got a bunch of exp (all the points
      the wraiths had gotten). It was fun.

      But, I must remain stubborn. SF and WoD do not mix.

      2)

      Now seriously... What do you guys do if you come across a rule that
      really smells (cyborgs spring to mind)? You seem to use them while
      complaining loudly! (You're welcome to prove me wrong) My aproach is
      slightly different. Take the rule and toss it. Far.

      I could tell you all the rules I've changed over the years but I won't.
      Not now anyway.

      3)

      Someone brought up somethin' 'bout characters soing a lot of back alley
      business thus being able to cream all competition of the same rank. Yes,
      and? Then they raise their rank and the opposition gets tougher. Then
      they kick back-alley-ass again and kick tournament-ass again. And so on.
      In my meager experience, that's the way it SHOULD go. When you hit the
      dirt 4 real, you don't charge again but you lick you're wounds and learn
      a few new tricks. THEN you charge again.

      And yes, I'm still talking about the RPG. NOT, real life.

      4)

      Getting beaten in multi fights?

      To all you sadistic GMs. Try using Rank 1 fighters as rank and file
      enemies! When the characters are swamped by cheesy 4/2/4 boxers who all
      play Fierce punches, characters tend to think of dirty tricks. And that
      is good. 'cos that's the ONLY TIME I EVER ALLOW CHEESY DIRTY TRICKS!!!

      One of my players humiliated Mustafa from Perfect Warrior in a gruesome
      way when his character was only rank 2. I can tell you that I firmly
      stated my view on using nothing but the same Block combo the entire
      fight.

      5)

      I know there's something else i wanted to comment... Aghhh!

      Yeah! You new guy! Trouble finding material? I feel for U but can't
      really help you. Sorry :(

      6)

      Has anyone stumbled across any good material for roleplaying in Outworld
      (Mortal Kombat's Outworld that is)? One of my groups wnated to see the
      look on my face when they flung thelselves through a dimensional gate
      just before it closed. I didn't have the heart to stop 'em... Now I need
      help.


      That's all I'm gonna write this time.

      Kristofer

      P.S. Have you ever seen a sunset before 1600 hours? If you don't want
      to, don't visit me.

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      Group: streetfighter Message: 499 From: Steve 'Doom Trooper' Karstensen Date: 12/23/1998
      Subject: Re: Multiple opponents
      ...seriously though. most fighters should not be capable of taking on
      multiple (skilled) opponents until they themselves are quite good.

      Morgado, Mike wrote:
      >
      > One thing that annoys me about SF is dealing with multiple opponents.
      > When a fighter almost gets beat by three ninjas (the ones in the back of
      > the main book) it kinda puts a crimp in everyones fun. And its annoying
      > seeing everyone doing spinning foot sweep. Right MikeD?
      >
      > MikeM
      >
      > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      > [Image]
      >
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      Group: streetfighter Message: 500 From: Wayne French Date: 12/23/1998
      Subject: Re: Merry X-mas!
      i think incorperating WoD stuff to your street fighter game is not easy,
      but it is easy when ya get the hand of it.

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      Group: streetfighter Message: 501 From: Micheal Duynhoven Date: 12/23/1998
      Subject: Re: Multiple opponents
      > One thing that annoys me about SF is dealing with multiple opponents.
      > When a fighter almost gets beat by three ninjas (the ones in the back of
      > the main book) it kinda puts a crimp in everyones fun. And its annoying
      > seeing everyone doing spinning foot sweep. Right MikeD?

      Hehe. What? So it was along the lines of you take him and you take him. The
      last 3 are mine! So I was dizzied the first round. Took 2 more to get the
      Spin Foot Sweep off. But I did win. (Barely, course using that move 3 times
      in a row was kinda excessive). I agree that multiple opponents is somewhat
      unfair. Cannot be any worse that starting a bar brawl just to get a
      workout; IN EVERY BAR you go to. (Sounds like Josh.... Hmmmm) 3 trained
      ninja's should be a very trying, if not impossible for the average Fighter.
      Besides Spinning Foot sweep is a staple move of my Special Forces
      Characters. (For just such a situation.)


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      Group: streetfighter Message: 502 From: Steve Karstensen Date: 12/24/1998
      Subject: Re: Merry X-mas!

      I have just learned a very valuable lesson. If you're hooked to a 
      mailing circle, never, EVER wait a few days to check your mail...
      
      * oh yea.  I used to get fifty or sixty E-mails a day when I 
      was on the Quake 2 mappers' mailing list.
       2)
      
      Now seriously... What do you guys do if you come across a rule that 
      really smells (cyborgs spring to mind)? You seem to use them while 
      complaining loudly! (You're welcome to prove me wrong) My aproach is 
      slightly different. Take the rule and toss it. Far.
      
      I could tell you all the rules I've changed over the years but I won't. 
      Not now anyway.
      
      * I simply think of ways to keep them in line and leave the actual rules
      as-is.  Cyborgs are a lot less powerful if they have to raise money for
      their upgrades and have to deal with huge corporations who either
      want to dominate them or pull them apart for scientific research.
       
      Getting beaten in multi fights?
      
      To all you sadistic GMs. Try using Rank 1 fighters as rank and file 
      enemies! When the characters are swamped by cheesy 4/2/4 boxers who all 
      play Fierce punches, characters tend to think of dirty tricks. And that 
      is good. 'cos that's the ONLY TIME I EVER ALLOW CHEESY DIRTY TRICKS!!!
      
      * yup.  I once pitted my rank 4 throughout team against a group of 12
      Thugees wielding broadswords.  The Thugees were 3/2/3 but just kept
      Fierce Striking.  Those Hindus pack a mean punch if you give 'em 
      three dots in Sword.
       
       6)
      
      Has anyone stumbled across any good material for roleplaying in Outworld 
      (Mortal Kombat's Outworld that is)? One of my groups wnated to see the 
      look on my face when they flung thelselves through a dimensional gate 
      just before it closed. I didn't have the heart to stop 'em... Now I need 
      help.
      
      * there's an actual Mortal Kombat RPG on the web that someone wrote, and
      it's got background material.  Throw out the rules and borrow
      the setting info.  I was thinking of writing a 'Net supplement for SF
      detailing the entire history of Mortal Kombat from one thru four,
      but I have yet to start on it due to a lack of time and knowledge that
      few people would use it. :p
      That's all I'm gonna write this time.
      
                 Kristofer
      
      * visit the following site, as most of the issues you seem to be having
      questions about are dealt with there;
      http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/skarsten/sfcent~1.htm
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