> very true. luckily for us the book defines the standards for the
> street fighting proffesion too.

Yes, whenever someone wants to debate the honor or system or moral debates
in Street Fighter, I just say, "It's just a game. This is what the book
says."

Tony

> As far as I'm concerned, that bit in the book about Honor
> representing morality is overruled by the system for regaining Chi
> and Willpower with Honor. Why would being a nice guy give you a
> stronger will? That makes no sense.

The more good you are (gained by Honor gained by fighting evil) means you
have more of a feeling of the world being in your hands thus you need to get
up with that last breath more so than the evil person who only cares about
himself?
It's that your conscience isn't kicking you in the nuts while trying regain
your strength?

Yes, I don't think the Honor system makes a huge amount of sense in SF for
regaining your temporaries, but it gives an advantage to the good guys which
seems to be the intent. That's all I see it as.

Tony

yes i did,
sorry if i didnt reply.

--- In streetfighter@y..., "warlockfm" <warlockfm@y...> wrote:
> Did you get my revised character?
>
> --- In streetfighter@y..., "necro6hit" <ringthief@c...> wrote:
> > it will start today.
> > sometime between now and me sleeping, which is often actually
early
> > tommorow morning but whos counting.
> >
> > Matt
> >
> > --- In streetfighter@y..., "chuangbao" <Greywolf@t...> wrote:
> > > Matt, how are things about your tournament?
> > > Will it start soon? - Just so I know :-)
> > >
> > > Roland

All right... It's new... It's on. Jirov, that bastardly,
headbutting cheater who's the current Cruiserweight champion of the
world, is supposed to take on Roy Jones, Jr. This is a very important
match.

The world will reverberate with the punch that knocks Jirov out;
Roy Jones recently took on and defeated a Heavyweight handily. Why is
this fight so important to him? Because this fight will cement his
success at crossing from Middleweight all the way to Cruiserweight -
The only fighter to have ever gone through so many weight categories.
Sugar Ray Leonard, Sugar Ray Robinson... None can compare to the
mighty Roy Jones, Jr. Can our hero, Roy Jones, manage to take on the
younger Jirov - An opponent known for cheating, who's heavier?

Roy Jones, Jr. is 37 years old. He's won every title in every
weight category he's been in. He's on the verge of retiring and he's
still so far beyond anyone else in speed that no one can hold a
candle to him. He was robbed of the Gold in the Olympics, he's being
robbed of recognition by that ass Don King and he can prove that he's
the greatest pound for pound of all time. Anyone on this channel, if
you're a fan of the fight, come forth and support the underdog.
Support the guy whose whole career has been people putting road
blocks in his way. Support the guy who walked through every weight
category he's been in and still isn't recognized for it. If he beats
Jirov, we might be in for the sight of seeing the Heavyweight title
challenged by him - Who began his career as a middleweight.

Fight the corruption in boxing - Support Roy Jones, Jr. The
greatest fighter of all time.

At most honor is a personal concept.... things I find honorable may offend
someone else, for a Christian comprasion...some things affect one person's
faith(ex...heavy metal, RPG games...etc...) honor is not a concept in which
one peron can say...that is honorable and that is not honorable..it is
defined by ones own convictions and beliefs.

Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "galin_ra" <randerssen@...>
To: <streetfighter@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 5:18 AM
Subject: [streetfighter] Re: new topic... Ryu


If you want to be a player in Streetfighter sometime, just check out
my online PBEM campaign.. It will be fun.

Right now we're finishing a tourney, but afterwards we'll be sending
the players out on hazardous adventuring ^_^


The list is at : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sf_uw_forum/

Hope to see you there ^_^

-----Galin-----


--- In streetfighter@y..., "thy_sorrow" <shallow_one@h...> wrote:
> Well, until a few weeks ago I was a full time d&d player... but I'm
> sick of the dm's Ihave, so I left all the games... pretty lonely
> too... but I figure I'll find some other ones...
>
> As for white wolf, it's my game. I love it. But I'm like the only
> Storteller in my area, and most of the people here are into D&D or
> Warhammer... so no players... really sucks..only managed to find
> Street Fighter players...and thier giving me a hard time...
>
> anyways, time will help me ...I hope :OÞ





Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

----- Original Message -----

From: The King of Chickens 2001

To: streetfighter@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 7:03 AM

Subject: Re: [streetfighter] Streetfighter Books

I feel for ya buddy....I only have the bloody core rules and that's all. (I consider myself lucky to be able to get a copy....just before they stopped printing it, or I wouldn't understand the rules now).

It's the same old things that's been going on with older computer software as well. It's no longer supported by the producing company, yet they will squawk at you when you copy it without paying them. That's copyright laws for you.....unreasonable as they are, most of us (while we do have a good argument against this sort of behaviour) are not able to afford the resultant lawsuits from White Wolf it would bring.

 

Blame White Wolf for throwing an innovative RPG out the window because 'it didn't earn them enough'.

 

>From: "warlockfm"

>Reply-To: streetfighter@yahoogroups.com

>To: streetfighter@yahoogroups.com

>Subject: [streetfighter] Streetfighter Books

>Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 05:51:37 -0000

>

>Ok, I haven't read the previous posts on scanning the books, but why not scan them anyway and post it on some anonymous site/channel/room/group then tell everyone about it so we can all share? :P

>

>I mean, why do you sadistic people continue to make other people suffer because these books are so rare now? It's not likeit's a collector's item or anything.......

>

>WarlockFM.

>

---

MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: Click Here


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

different ppl have different oppinions.

to some ppl that is as unbelievable as what color the sky is being
determined by individual beliefs. what if I say it's green instead of
blue?? Does that change the fact??

and still some other ppl agree with you 100%.


--- In streetfighter@y..., "Michael Deslongchamps" <mjdeslon@u...>
wrote:

> At most honor is a personal concept.... things I find honorable may

offend

> someone else, for a Christian comprasion...some things affect one

person's

> faith(ex...heavy metal, RPG games...etc...) honor is not a concept

in which

> one peron can say...that is honorable and that is not honorable..it

is

> defined by ones own convictions and beliefs.
>
> Mike
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "galin_ra" <randerssen@h...>
> To: <streetfighter@y...>
> Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 5:18 AM
> Subject: [streetfighter] Re: new topic... Ryu
>
>
> If you want to be a player in Streetfighter sometime, just check out
> my online PBEM campaign.. It will be fun.
>
> Right now we're finishing a tourney, but afterwards we'll be sending
> the players out on hazardous adventuring ^_^
>
>
> The list is at : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sf_uw_forum/
>
> Hope to see you there ^_^
>
> -----Galin-----
>
>
> --- In streetfighter@y..., "thy_sorrow" <shallow_one@h...> wrote:
> > Well, until a few weeks ago I was a full time d&d player... but

I'm

> > sick of the dm's Ihave, so I left all the games... pretty lonely
> > too... but I figure I'll find some other ones...
> >
> > As for white wolf, it's my game. I love it. But I'm like the only
> > Storteller in my area, and most of the people here are into D&D or
> > Warhammer... so no players... really sucks..only managed to find
> > Street Fighter players...and thier giving me a hard time...
> >
> > anyways, time will help me ...I hope :OÞ
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to

http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

i think i will open a new contest soon called "just take the fucking
things"
lol

trying to get the pics i need only results in my inbox being flooded
with 20 different enlarged copies of the exact same pic from the web
that is too small.

now, these ppl want books, so i KNOW they can read when i say not to
blow it up in the rules....

I think i'll just give them away and ppl can pay me if they want to
or just take them.

but not yet so dont start calling dibs.

I'll announce it.

Matt

--- In streetfighter@y..., "Michael Deslongchamps" <mjdeslon@u...>
wrote:

> I know the pain of not having the sourcebooks...i had a complete

set of them but when I got married I sold them..now I wish to start a
new group and cannot locate the books<growls>. Oh well I'll keep
checking ebay...or win Matts contest!

>
> Mike
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: The King of Chickens 2001
> To: streetfighter@y...
> Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 7:03 AM
> Subject: Re: [streetfighter] Streetfighter Books
>
>
> I feel for ya buddy....I only have the bloody core rules and

that's all. (I consider myself lucky to be able to get a copy....just
before they stopped printing it, or I wouldn't understand the rules
now).

>
> It's the same old things that's been going on with older computer

software as well. It's no longer supported by the producing company,
yet they will squawk at you when you copy it without paying them.
That's copyright laws for you.....unreasonable as they are, most of
us (while we do have a good argument against this sort of behaviour)
are not able to afford the resultant lawsuits from White Wolf it
would bring.

>
> Blame White Wolf for throwing an innovative RPG out the window

because 'it didn't earn them enough'.

>
> >From: "warlockfm"
> >Reply-To: streetfighter@y...
> >To: streetfighter@y...
> >Subject: [streetfighter] Streetfighter Books
> >Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 05:51:37 -0000
> >
> >Ok, I haven't read the previous posts on scanning the books, but

why not scan them anyway and post it on some anonymous
site/channel/room/group then tell everyone about it so we can all
share? :P

> >
> >I mean, why do you sadistic people continue to make other people

suffer because these books are so rare now? It's not likeit's a
collector's item or anything.......

> >
> >WarlockFM.
> >
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------

----------

> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:

Click Here

>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of

Service.

The fight for the title of World's Strongest has begun.

http://www.tlcnet.com/~slappy/sf/tourney.html

Matt

Well, I apologise for not making myself more clear and possibly offending anyone.

--- In streetfighter@y..., "necro6hit" <ringthief@c...> wrote:
> I was saying ppl who defend copyrights because they have all the
> books and dont need copies, suck.
>
> when you pointed out that i have 3 sets o books i took that to mean
> you were comparing me to those sucky ppl. (even though i dont defend
> copyright laws in this case)
>
> sorry if i was wrong.
> I couldnt see any other reason you would come out at that exact
> moment to post how many books i had.
>
> I obviously know what i have, so I figured by pointing it out you
> could only be trying to make a point.
>
> Matt
>
> --- In streetfighter@y..., "warlockfm" <warlockfm@y...> wrote:
> > You said that it's easy to support copyright when you have the
> books and I pointed out that have 3 and a part sets, it had nothing
> to do with you giving them away as prizes which I am aware of, and I
> also said I couldn't find the pcitures so I couldn't help you.
> >

its all good in the hood.
but if you didnt mean that, what did you mean?
I dont understand the purpose.

then again, its 10 am and im runnin on no hours sleep.
i probably dont understand anything right now.

Matt

--- In streetfighter@y..., "warlockfm" <warlockfm@y...> wrote:
> Well, I apologise for not making myself more clear and possibly
offending anyone.
>
> --- In streetfighter@y..., "necro6hit" <ringthief@c...> wrote:
> > I was saying ppl who defend copyrights because they have all the
> > books and dont need copies, suck.
> >
> > when you pointed out that i have 3 sets o books i took that to
mean
> > you were comparing me to those sucky ppl. (even though i dont
defend
> > copyright laws in this case)
> >
> > sorry if i was wrong.
> > I couldnt see any other reason you would come out at that exact
> > moment to post how many books i had.
> >
> > I obviously know what i have, so I figured by pointing it out you
> > could only be trying to make a point.
> >
> > Matt
> >
> > --- In streetfighter@y..., "warlockfm" <warlockfm@y...> wrote:
> > > You said that it's easy to support copyright when you have the
> > books and I pointed out that have 3 and a part sets, it had
nothing
> > to do with you giving them away as prizes which I am aware of,
and I
> > also said I couldn't find the pcitures so I couldn't help you.
> > >

If I offended you by pointing out the number of books that you had because you said it's easy to defend copyright laws when you have them. Don't be.

--- In streetfighter@y..., "necro6hit" <ringthief@c...> wrote:
> its all good in the hood.
> but if you didnt mean that, what did you mean?
> I dont understand the purpose.
>
> then again, its 10 am and im runnin on no hours sleep.
> i probably dont understand anything right now.
>
> Matt
>
> --- In streetfighter@y..., "warlockfm" <warlockfm@y...> wrote:
> > Well, I apologise for not making myself more clear and possibly
> offending anyone.
> >
> > --- In streetfighter@y..., "necro6hit" <ringthief@c...> wrote:
> > > I was saying ppl who defend copyrights because they have all the
> > > books and dont need copies, suck.
> > >
> > > when you pointed out that i have 3 sets o books i took that to
> mean
> > > you were comparing me to those sucky ppl. (even though i dont
> defend
> > > copyright laws in this case)
> > >
> > > sorry if i was wrong.
> > > I couldnt see any other reason you would come out at that exact
> > > moment to post how many books i had.
> > >
> > > I obviously know what i have, so I figured by pointing it out you
> > > could only be trying to make a point.
> > >
> > > Matt
> > >
> > > --- In streetfighter@y..., "warlockfm" <warlockfm@y...> wrote:
> > > > You said that it's easy to support copyright when you have the
> > > books and I pointed out that have 3 and a part sets, it had
> nothing
> > > to do with you giving them away as prizes which I am aware of,
> and I
> > > also said I couldn't find the pcitures so I couldn't help you.
> > > >

i already said we are cool,
i just asked what you meant.

when i said that btw, i wasnt talking about myself.

M

--- In streetfighter@y..., "warlockfm" <warlockfm@y...> wrote:
> If I offended you by pointing out the number of books that you had
because you said it's easy to defend copyright laws when you have
them. Don't be.
>
> --- In streetfighter@y..., "necro6hit" <ringthief@c...> wrote:
> > its all good in the hood.
> > but if you didnt mean that, what did you mean?
> > I dont understand the purpose.
> >
> > then again, its 10 am and im runnin on no hours sleep.
> > i probably dont understand anything right now.
> >
> > Matt
> >
> > --- In streetfighter@y..., "warlockfm" <warlockfm@y...> wrote:
> > > Well, I apologise for not making myself more clear and possibly
> > offending anyone.
> > >
> > > --- In streetfighter@y..., "necro6hit" <ringthief@c...> wrote:
> > > > I was saying ppl who defend copyrights because they have all
the
> > > > books and dont need copies, suck.
> > > >
> > > > when you pointed out that i have 3 sets o books i took that
to
> > mean
> > > > you were comparing me to those sucky ppl. (even though i dont
> > defend
> > > > copyright laws in this case)
> > > >
> > > > sorry if i was wrong.
> > > > I couldnt see any other reason you would come out at that
exact
> > > > moment to post how many books i had.
> > > >
> > > > I obviously know what i have, so I figured by pointing it out
you
> > > > could only be trying to make a point.
> > > >
> > > > Matt
> > > >
> > > > --- In streetfighter@y..., "warlockfm" <warlockfm@y...> wrote:
> > > > > You said that it's easy to support copyright when you have
the
> > > > books and I pointed out that have 3 and a part sets, it had
> > nothing
> > > > to do with you giving them away as prizes which I am aware
of,
> > and I
> > > > also said I couldn't find the pcitures so I couldn't help you.
> > > > >

I know, I'm cool too it's 12:01am now. Guess I'll be saying goodnight.

--- In streetfighter@y..., "necro6hit" <ringthief@c...> wrote:
> i already said we are cool,
> i just asked what you meant.
>
> when i said that btw, i wasnt talking about myself.
>
> M
> --- In streetfighter@y..., "warlockfm" <warlockfm@y...> wrote:
> > If I offended you by pointing out the number of books that you had
> because you said it's easy to defend copyright laws when you have
> them. Don't be.
> >
> > --- In streetfighter@y..., "necro6hit" <ringthief@c...> wrote:
> > > its all good in the hood.
> > > but if you didnt mean that, what did you mean?
> > > I dont understand the purpose.
> > >
> > > then again, its 10 am and im runnin on no hours sleep.
> > > i probably dont understand anything right now.
> > >
> > > Matt
> > >
> > > --- In streetfighter@y..., "warlockfm" <warlockfm@y...> wrote:
> > > > Well, I apologise for not making myself more clear and possibly
> > > offending anyone.
> > > >
> > > > --- In streetfighter@y..., "necro6hit" <ringthief@c...> wrote:
> > > > > I was saying ppl who defend copyrights because they have all
> the
> > > > > books and dont need copies, suck.
> > > > >
> > > > > when you pointed out that i have 3 sets o books i took that
> to
> > > mean
> > > > > you were comparing me to those sucky ppl. (even though i dont
> > > defend
> > > > > copyright laws in this case)
> > > > >
> > > > > sorry if i was wrong.
> > > > > I couldnt see any other reason you would come out at that
> exact
> > > > > moment to post how many books i had.
> > > > >
> > > > > I obviously know what i have, so I figured by pointing it out
> you
> > > > > could only be trying to make a point.
> > > > >
> > > > > Matt
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In streetfighter@y..., "warlockfm" <warlockfm@y...> wrote:
> > > > > > You said that it's easy to support copyright when you have
> the
> > > > > books and I pointed out that have 3 and a part sets, it had
> > > nothing
> > > > > to do with you giving them away as prizes which I am aware
> of,
> > > and I
> > > > > also said I couldn't find the pcitures so I couldn't help you.
> > > > > >

Lol I'm even worse I've integrated ideas from just
about any religios aspect that felt right into my
personal bit. Our circle is interesting to say the
least we run the gamat from little bit of everything
to christian mystic. But it gives us direction a
sense of purpose and fulfillment which I think is what
most people turn to religion for (at least the ones
that just don't do it from habit alone.)

>.I can comment on Wicca and other neo-
> pagan 'religions'. Most are extremely recent, Wicca
> is only 50
> years old. Neo-Druidism is only 120 years old. N/D
> is the third
> incarnation, the first destroyed by the Romans, the
> second by the
> Scottish. Wicca is a laughing stock among religious
> scholars.
> It's a mish-mash of other religions and
> organizations. It borrows
> heavily from Rosicrucians, Masons, Animism,
> Kabbalism and even
> Roman Catholic ritual. Red the book by its founder,
> Gilbert
> Gordan. It's rather revealing in its exposure of
> Wicca, though
> not intentionally.
> .
>
> ---------- Original Message
> ----------------------------------
> From: "J. Scott Pittman" <joespitt@...>
> Reply-To: streetfighter@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 11:02:46 -0700
>
> >Matt,
> >
> > Thanks for saying that. Christians in the past
> did horrible
> things, just like almost any group that has been in
> existance for
> so long. There are many Christians that are still
> "holier than
> thou" out there, but there are of those of us who
> are open minded
> as well. I study the bible of my own accord and do
> not attend the
> churches here (although there are many fine
> Christians who are in
> the area). I have been flamed and attacked by the
> pagen religion
> just because I was a Christain. They were doing to
> me what they
> thought I would do to them, but had not. My
> girlfriend (and soon
> to be wife) is a native american and our religions
> are not the
> same. Yet these people attacked me saying Christains
> were close-
> minded buttholes.
> > I do not agree with the pagen religion (if I did
> I would not be
> Christian). However, I do not condem it as I know
> little of it. I
> hope it has a strong sense of morals and right from
> wrong. Most of
> all, however, I hope the pagens can do the same for
> me.
> > On a final note, you will find that Christain
> denominations
> talk badly about each other much more than they do
> other
> religions. Sad but true.
> >
> >J. Scott Pittman
> >www.dragonslayergames.com
> >Look to Dragonslayer Games for character sketches,
> the EPICS rpg,
> and more!
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: necro6hit
> > To: streetfighter@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 11:05 AM
> > Subject: [streetfighter] Re: new topic... Ryu
> >
> >
> > ok, now that this has gone religious i have a few
> things to say.
> > specificly since it was brought up how certain
> ppl might
> classify a
> > pagan to be "evil".
> >
> > there are a lot of ppl out there who call
> themselves christians
> then
> > act like assholes and give us all a bad name.
> everyone thinks
> of
> > christians as these finger pointing
> inquisitionists.
> >
> > I study what the bible actually says as opposed
> to just
> listening to
> > the parts i want to hear like some, and if anyone
> calls
> themselves a
> > christian and judges you for your beliefs, or
> does not love you
> on
> > some level, they are practicing the religion all
> wrong.
> >
> > please dont think of christianity in terms of how
> these ppl act
> as
> > they are doing it wrong.
> >
> > every non-christian ive ever talked to who was
> arguing against
> my
> > religion has used the rationale of:"how can he
> claim to be a
> god of
> > love when all these deaths and atrocities are
> commited in his
> name"
> > the answer of coarse, is the ppl that did those
> things, were
> not
> > practicing his religion correctly.
> >
> > A christian who actually practices the religion
> correctly, will
> not
> > hate you, persecute you, or judge you based on
> ANY of your
> beliefs.
> > These are the ones you should define the religion
> by, because
> these
> > are the ones who are doing it right.
> >
> > (steps off soapbox)
> > Matt
> >
> >
> > --- In streetfighter@y..., Jason Obeston
> <callanme@y...> wrote:
> > > *Sigh* I'm a pagan. To many that makes me
> outright
> > > evil. My code of honor is simple "and it harms
> none
> > > do as ye will". Basically a variant of the
> golden
> > > rule every religion has. Evil can many times
> just be
> > > a matter of perspective. Um to take an example
> from
> > > star wars. Luke blew up the death star a
> planet
> > > destroying weapon. It do so he destroyed
> millions to
> > > billions of people. I'm pretty sure to the
> families
> > > of those people what he did was an evil act.
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>

________________________________________________________________

> Sent via the EV1 webmail system at mail.ev1.net
>
>
>
>
>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more
http://games.yahoo.com/

You're speaking of absolute truths. Okay we know
there is color in the world. Most of us can
distinguish many shades and all. But for those that
can't distinguish between certain colors one of them
(colors) might as well not exist. Effectively it
doesn't for them. Ditto with world being flat and all
that. Was it ever really that way? According to
scientific fact no. Did that stop it from being true
to millions? Likewise no. Until someone ventures
enough to prove otherwise reality is in fact shaped by
popular perception. Because if someone knows the
world to be flat they won't bother sailing towards the
edge. What would be the point.

Oh yeah and for my final words on the evil debate,
again it depends on the ultimate truth or power
believed in and unfortunately very much circumstances.
Often evil is only recgonized in hindsight. It may
be lauded as a great action at the time but later
people discover how wrong it was. Sometimes not even
the information about the action has changed. Just
the perception of it.


Um hope some of that made sense kinda out of from lack
of sleep and the holiday sat.


--- necro6hit <ringthief@...> wrote:

> Im done talking about whats good or honorable here,
> but i will
> comment on the relationship of perception and truth
> which was brought
> up in that other debate.
>
> was the world ever flat?
> could you ever sail off the side?
> did the sun ever revolve around the stationary
> earth?
> is bathing bad for you?
>
> these things were all perceived as true by everyone
> at different
> points in history, but the actual truth still
> existed despite what
> ppl believed.
>
> Matt
>
>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more
http://games.yahoo.com/

There's a store in Houston called Gamemasters Unlimited that had a
copy. In the bargain bin even. Don't have a phone number though.


---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Brandon Cecil" <bcecil@...>
Reply-To: streetfighter@yahoogroups.com
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 01:22:07 -0400

>Heyo. New to the list here.
>
>I need to know of a place where I can find the core game and it's

attendant supplements.

>
>Brandon Cecil
>
>

________________________________________________________________
Sent via the EV1 webmail system at mail.ev1.net

--- In streetfighter@y..., Jason Obeston <callanme@y...> wrote:

> You're speaking of absolute truths. Okay we know
> there is color in the world. Most of us can
> distinguish many shades and all. But for those that
> can't distinguish between certain colors one of them
> (colors) might as well not exist. Effectively it
> doesn't for them.

but ppl who can see the color know it DOES exist and the blind man is
just ignorant.
the color exists whether it is percieved to or not.

> Ditto with world being flat and all
> that. Was it ever really that way? According to
> scientific fact no.

true

> Did that stop it from being true
> to millions? Likewise no.

I disagree, it SEEMED true to millions, but it was ACTUALLY false to
millions.

The beauty of hindsight is that we can now look back and see that
they were all wrong.
no matter what they THOUGHT was the truth, they were wrong.

Your theory doesnt take into account anyone is ever wrong.
What if I walk up to the blackboard to do an equation?
then the teacher tells me I am wrong.

Despite the fact that it SEEMED to be the right answer when I
scribbled it, it is still actually wrong.

My perception did not change what the actual truth still was.

That example for 1 person is true, but an example for an equation
that is accepted by MILLIONS in the scientific community would be
equally true.

no matter how many ppl believe something that is wrong, it is still
wrong.

> Until someone ventures
> enough to prove otherwise reality is in fact shaped by
> popular perception.

no, our CONCEPT of reality is shaped by popular perception.
the ACTUAL reality can be totally different than popular perception.

to say that REALITY changes because of popular perception is like
saying that until a certain time the world was actually flat and then
when popular perception changed it suddenly inflated.

and assuming we had the means to watch this event, we could have seen
the entire world physically change from flat to round..

its absurd!

now we cant actually see into the past for this example to prove that
your theory of the earths physical inflation didnt happen. (well,
until we break the light barrier and outrun the sight of it, then
turn around and look with a REAALY powerfull telescope)

but there are plenty of examples where, thanks to modern means of
recording things, we CAN effectively "see into the past" and prove
the change in reality did not occur and it was only perception that
changed.

stick a card to your forehead facing out.
have your friend take a picture of you.
now flip through the deck REALLY fast and try to guess which card is
on your head based on whats left in the deck.

Look at the card,
when your PERCEPTION of the reality of the card turns out to be
WRONG. you can look at the picture and see that at the time you
believed it, it was actually still wrong despite your perception.

also you can go through the remaining deck much slower taking notes.
you will see that the answer was right there the whole time, you were
just wrong because you looked through the deck so quickly..

this analogy with the card can go for nearly anything.
often when we find the real truth, we also find how those who came
before us missed it. we see there mistakes and it tells us that
reality was the same then, they just "went through the deck to
quickly".

> Because if someone knows the
> world to be flat they won't bother sailing towards the
> edge. What would be the point.
>

it doesnt matter if some hick, who is dead wrong about the truth,
sees a point in doing something. that only defines some dumb hicks
perception, not the reality.

Matt

> --- necro6hit <ringthief@c...> wrote:
> > Im done talking about whats good or honorable here,
> > but i will
> > comment on the relationship of perception and truth
> > which was brought
> > up in that other debate.
> >
> > was the world ever flat?
> > could you ever sail off the side?
> > did the sun ever revolve around the stationary
> > earth?
> > is bathing bad for you?
> >
> > these things were all perceived as true by everyone
> > at different
> > points in history, but the actual truth still
> > existed despite what
> > ppl believed.
> >
> > Matt
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more
> http://games.yahoo.com/

tournament is going fine:) we have a few fights breaking out, and
some still I am waiting for input on.

04/22/02
Updated the Tournament and added Combat rules from the book, as well
as specific rules for my tourney. How you like my little Mills Lane
icon? heheh.

http://www.tlcnet.com/~slappy/sf/

Welcome to the list Brandon.
I have a contest running right now where I'm giving away books to the
winner. It is at http://www.tlcnet.com/~slappy/sf/contest/index.html

So far it has been a gruesome failure that no one can win, so I will
probably just start giving them away or selling them soon.

So keep your eye on my site.

Matt
http://www.tlcnet.com/~slappy/sf/index.html

p.s. I was going to scan the books into e-books but everyone threw a
hissy-fit about copyrights when I mentioned it. Maybe if you get some
of the books you can do it for the next guy....

--- In streetfighter@y..., "Brandon Cecil" <bcecil@e...> wrote:
> Heyo. New to the list here.
>
> I need to know of a place where I can find the core game and it's
attendant supplements.
>
> Brandon Cecil

----- Original Message -----

From: Jason Obeston

To: streetfighter@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 9:46 PM

Subject: Re: [streetfighter] Perception+awareness

You're speaking of absolute truths.  Okay we know
there is color in the world.  Most of us can
distinguish many shades and all.  But for those that
can't distinguish between certain colors one of them
(colors) might as well not exist.  Effectively it
doesn't for them.  Ditto with world being flat and all
that.  Was it ever really that way?  According to
scientific fact no.  Did that stop it from being true
to millions?  Likewise no.  Until someone ventures
enough to prove otherwise reality is in fact shaped by
popular perception.  Because if someone knows the
world to be flat they won't bother sailing towards the
edge.  What would be the point.

Oh yeah and for my final words on the evil debate,
again it depends on the ultimate truth or power
believed in and unfortunately very much circumstances.
Often evil is only recgonized in hindsight.  It may
be lauded as a great action at the time but later
people discover how wrong it was.  Sometimes not even
the information about the action has changed.  Just
the perception of it.


Um hope some of that made sense kinda out of from lack
of sleep and the holiday sat.


--- necro6hit <ringthief@...> wrote:
> Im done talking about whats good or honorable here,
> but i will
> comment on the relationship of perception and truth
> which was brought
> up in that other debate.
>
> was the world ever flat?
> could you ever sail off the side?
> did the sun ever revolve around the stationary
> earth?
> is bathing bad for you?
>
> these things were all perceived as true by everyone
> at different
> points in history, but the actual truth still
> existed despite what
> ppl believed.
>
> Matt
>
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more
http://games.yahoo.com/


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

----- Original Message -----

From: necro6hit

To: streetfighter@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 12:40 AM

Subject: [streetfighter] Re: Perception+awareness

--- In streetfighter@y..., Jason Obeston <callanme@y...> wrote:
> You're speaking of absolute truths.  Okay we know
> there is color in the world.  Most of us can
> distinguish many shades and all.  But for those that
> can't distinguish between certain colors one of them
> (colors) might as well not exist.  Effectively it
> doesn't for them.


but ppl who can see the color know it DOES exist and the blind man is
just ignorant.
the color exists whether it is percieved to or not.


> Ditto with world being flat and all
> that.  Was it ever really that way?  According to
> scientific fact no.

true

>  Did that stop it from being true
> to millions?  Likewise no. 

I disagree, it SEEMED true to millions, but it was ACTUALLY false to
millions.

The beauty of hindsight is that we can now look back and see that
they were all wrong.
no matter what they THOUGHT was the truth, they were wrong.

Your theory doesnt take into account anyone is ever wrong.
What if I walk up to the blackboard to do an equation?
then the teacher tells me I am wrong.

Despite the fact that it SEEMED to be the right answer when I
scribbled it, it is still actually wrong.

My perception did not change what the actual truth still was.

That example for 1 person is true, but an example for an equation
that is accepted by MILLIONS in the scientific community would be
equally true.

no matter how many ppl believe something that is wrong, it is still
wrong.


> Until someone ventures
> enough to prove otherwise reality is in fact shaped by
> popular perception. 


no, our CONCEPT of reality is shaped by popular perception.
the ACTUAL reality can be totally different than popular perception.

to say that REALITY changes because of popular perception is like
saying that until a certain time the world was actually flat and then
when popular perception changed it suddenly inflated.

and assuming we had the means to watch this event, we could have seen
the entire world physically change from flat to round..

its absurd!

now we cant actually see into the past for this example to prove that
your theory of the earths physical inflation didnt happen. (well,
until we break the light barrier and outrun the sight of it, then
turn around and look with a  REAALY powerfull telescope)

but there are plenty of examples where, thanks to modern means of
recording things, we CAN effectively "see into the past" and prove
the change in reality did not occur and it was only perception that
changed.

stick a card to your forehead facing out.
have your friend take a picture of you.
now flip through the deck REALLY fast and try to guess which card is
on your head based on whats left in the deck.

Look at the card,
when your PERCEPTION of the reality of the card turns out to be
WRONG. you can look at the picture and see that at the time you
believed it, it was actually still wrong despite your perception.

also you can go through the remaining deck much slower taking notes.
you will see that the answer was right there the whole time, you were
just wrong because you looked through the deck so quickly..

this analogy with the card can go for nearly anything.
often when we find the real truth, we also find how those who came
before us missed it.  we see there mistakes and it tells us that
reality was the same then, they just "went through the deck to
quickly".

> Because if someone knows the
> world to be flat they won't bother sailing towards the
> edge.  What would be the point.
>


it doesnt matter if some hick, who is dead wrong about the truth,
sees a point in doing something.  that only defines some dumb hicks
perception, not the reality.

Matt

> --- necro6hit <ringthief@c...> wrote:
> > Im done talking about whats good or honorable here,
> > but i will
> > comment on the relationship of perception and truth
> > which was brought
> > up in that other debate.
> >
> > was the world ever flat?
> > could you ever sail off the side?
> > did the sun ever revolve around the stationary
> > earth?
> > is bathing bad for you?
> >
> > these things were all perceived as true by everyone
> > at different
> > points in history, but the actual truth still
> > existed despite what
> > ppl believed.
> >
> > Matt
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more
> http://games.yahoo.com/



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

--- In streetfighter@y..., "necro6hit" <ringthief@c...> wrote:

> tournament is going fine:) we have a few fights breaking out, and
> some still I am waiting for input on.
>
> 04/22/02
> Updated the Tournament and added Combat rules from the book, as

well

> as specific rules for my tourney. How you like my little Mills

Lane

> icon? heheh.
>
> http://www.tlcnet.com/~slappy/sf/

If it's possible, is there anyway you could run it over a IM chat to
save time. Going by email is painfully slow. Granted, not
everybody might have compatible IMs, but for those who do, it could
make this tournament a lot easier on all of us.

lol,
methinks he practices the Mystic style:
http://www.tlcnet.com/~slappy/sf/mystic.html

--- In streetfighter@y..., "J. Scott Pittman" <joespitt@t...> wrote:
>Sorry, but life is not the Mage game from White Wolf....
>
> J. Scott Pittman

i know it's slow.
but if you could see the trouble I have getting some of these guys to
even check their e mail youd realize that relying on them to be in
chat at a certain time would be equally nightmarish.

ive got one guy who, i swear to christ, based on trying to swap e
mails with him during character creation I could seriously see him
standing there through his fight cuz he'll never answer in time.

plus some ppl in the tournament have never even had the book, so Im
having to explain everything to them. I dont mind it really, but it
would make real time chat frustrating.

then youve got the guys who you KNOW know the rules, they just cant
be bothered to take 5 minutes to make their e mail coherent.

each fight will only be 10 rounds at most, but most fights dont last
that long anyway. plus if I dont here from someone in a week, their
character is mesmerized by a flasher in the audience and they just
stand there..

it'll be to the next tier before you know it:)

Matt

p.s. Does everyone like that they are anonymous? I think its kind of
cool and makes you picture the actual character instead of
thinking "tommy" or "chris hoffman". brings the characters to life a
little.

--- In streetfighter@y..., "thehgw" <TheGlen@m...> wrote:
> If it's possible, is there anyway you could run it over a IM chat
to
> save time. Going by email is painfully slow. Granted, not
> everybody might have compatible IMs, but for those who do, it could
> make this tournament a lot easier on all of us.

My only other suggestion is to allow a bonus XP or two for
creative tactics, dialogue or other exemplary behavior. To be
given by bystanders. Makes people play to the crowd.

In the mean time, twiddle, twiddle, twiddle. :)

---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "necro6hit" <ringthief@...>
Reply-To: streetfighter@yahoogroups.com
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 13:09:13 -0000

><html><body>
>
>
><tt>
>i know it's slow.<BR>
>but if you could see the trouble I have getting some of these

guys to <BR>

>even check their e mail youd realize that relying on them to be

in <BR>

>chat at a certain time would be equally nightmarish.<BR>
><BR>
>ive got one guy who, i swear to christ, based on trying to swap e

<BR>

>mails with him during character creation I could seriously see

him <BR>

>standing there through his fight cuz he'll never answer in

time.<BR>

><BR>
>plus some ppl in the tournament have never even had the book, so

Im <BR>

>having to explain everything to them.� I dont mind it really, but

it <BR>

>would make real time chat frustrating.<BR>
><BR>
>then youve got the guys who you KNOW know the rules, they just

cant <BR>

>be bothered to take 5 minutes to make their e mail coherent.<BR>
><BR>
>each fight will only be 10 rounds at most, but most fights dont

last <BR>

>that long anyway.� plus if I dont here from someone in a week,

their <BR>

>character is mesmerized by a flasher in the audience and they

just <BR>

>stand there..<BR>
><BR>
>it'll be to the next tier before you know it:)<BR>
><BR>
>Matt<BR>
><BR>
>p.s. Does everyone like that they are anonymous? I think its kind

of <BR>

>cool and makes you picture the actual character instead of <BR>
>thinking "tommy" or "chris hoffman".� brings the characters to

life a <BR>

>little.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>--- In streetfighter@y..., "thehgw" <TheGlen@m...> wrote:<BR>
>> If it's possible, is there anyway you could run it over a IM

chat <BR>

>to <BR>
>> save time.� Going by email is painfully slow.� Granted, not <BR>
>> everybody might have compatible IMs, but for those who do, it

could <BR>

>> make this tournament a lot easier on all of us.<BR>
><BR>
></tt>
>
><br>
>
><!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
>
><table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2>
><tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC>
><td align=center><font size="-1" color=#003399><b>Yahoo! Groups

Sponsor</b></font></td>

></tr>
><tr bgcolor=#FFFFFF>
><td align=center width=470><table border=0 cellpadding=0

cellspacing=0><tr><td align=center><font face=arial size=-
2>ADVERTISEMENT</font><br><a
href="http://rd.yahoo.com/M=217097.2003762.3481930.1261774/D=egroup
web/S=1705057147:HM/A=1042587/R=0/*http://service.bfast.com/bfast/c
lick?bfmid=29150849&siteid=39282504&bfpage=account"
target=_top><img
src="http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/ne/netstock_direct/300x250
_green_april.gif" alt="" width="300" height="250"
border="0"></a></td></tr></table></td>

></tr>
><tr><td><img alt="" width=1 height=1

src="http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?
M=217097.2003762.3481930.1261774/D=egroupmail/S=1705057147:HM/A=104
2587/rand=945878603"></td></tr>

></table>
>
><!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
>
>
>
><br>
><tt>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <a

href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">Yahoo! Terms of
Service</a>.</tt>

></br>
>
></body></html>
>
>

________________________________________________________________
Sent via the EV1 webmail system at mail.ev1.net

the guys playing Lawrence and Buzz are pretty good about answering so
who ever is playing that Overkill guy (nudge nudge, wink wink)
shouldn't have to wait *too* long.

Matt

--- In streetfighter@y..., "TheGlen" <TheGlen@m...> wrote:
>
> My only other suggestion is to allow a bonus XP or two for
> creative tactics, dialogue or other exemplary behavior. To be
> given by bystanders. Makes people play to the crowd.
>
> In the mean time, twiddle, twiddle, twiddle. :)
>
> ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
> From: "necro6hit" <ringthief@c...>
> Reply-To: streetfighter@y...
> Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 13:09:13 -0000
>
> ><html><body>
> >
> >
> ><tt>
> >i know it's slow.<BR>
> >but if you could see the trouble I have getting some of these
> guys to <BR>
> >even check their e mail youd realize that relying on them to be
> in <BR>
> >chat at a certain time would be equally nightmarish.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >ive got one guy who, i swear to christ, based on trying to swap e
> <BR>
> >mails with him during character creation I could seriously see
> him <BR>
> >standing there through his fight cuz he'll never answer in
> time.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >plus some ppl in the tournament have never even had the book, so
> Im <BR>
> >having to explain everything to them.  I dont mind it really, but
> it <BR>
> >would make real time chat frustrating.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >then youve got the guys who you KNOW know the rules, they just
> cant <BR>
> >be bothered to take 5 minutes to make their e mail coherent.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >each fight will only be 10 rounds at most, but most fights dont
> last <BR>
> >that long anyway.  plus if I dont here from someone in a week,
> their <BR>
> >character is mesmerized by a flasher in the audience and they
> just <BR>
> >stand there..<BR>
> ><BR>
> >it'll be to the next tier before you know it:)<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Matt<BR>
> ><BR>
> >p.s. Does everyone like that they are anonymous? I think its kind
> of <BR>
> >cool and makes you picture the actual character instead of <BR>
> >thinking "tommy" or "chris hoffman".  brings the characters to
> life a <BR>
> >little.<BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
> >--- In streetfighter@y..., "thehgw" <TheGlen@m...> wrote:<BR>
> >> If it's possible, is there anyway you could run it over a IM
> chat <BR>
> >to <BR>
> >> save time.  Going by email is painfully slow.  Granted, not <BR>
> >> everybody might have compatible IMs, but for those who do, it
> could <BR>
> >> make this tournament a lot easier on all of us.<BR>
> ><BR>
> ></tt>
> >
> ><br>
> >
> ><!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
> >
> ><table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2>
> ><tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC>
> ><td align=center><font size="-1" color=#003399><b>Yahoo! Groups
> Sponsor</b></font></td>
> ></tr>
> ><tr bgcolor=#FFFFFF>
> ><td align=center width=470><table border=0 cellpadding=0
> cellspacing=0><tr><td align=center><font face=arial size=-
> 2>ADVERTISEMENT</font><br><a
> href="http://rd.yahoo.com/M=217097.2003762.3481930.1261774/D=egroup
> web/S=1705057147:HM/A=1042587/R=0/*http://service.bfast.com/bfast/c
> lick?bfmid=29150849&siteid=39282504&bfpage=account"
> target=_top><img
> src="http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/ne/netstock_direct/300x250
> _green_april.gif" alt="" width="300" height="250"
> border="0"></a></td></tr></table></td>
> ></tr>
> ><tr><td><img alt="" width=1 height=1
> src="http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?
> M=217097.2003762.3481930.1261774/D=egroupmail/S=1705057147:HM/A=104
> 2587/rand=945878603"></td></tr>
> ></table>
> >
> ><!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
> >
> >
> >
> ><br>
> ><tt>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <a
> href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">Yahoo! Terms of
> Service</a>.</tt>
> ></br>
> >
> ></body></html>
> >
> >
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Sent via the EV1 webmail system at mail.ev1.net

--- necro6hit <ringthief@...> wrote:

> Im done talking about whats good or honorable here, but i will
> comment on the relationship of perception and truth which was brought
> up in that other debate.
>
> was the world ever flat?
> could you ever sail off the side?
> did the sun ever revolve around the stationary earth?

Maybe. When I get my time machine perfected I'll go back and check for you.

> is bathing bad for you?

Sometimes. Dead of winter, without heat, it can be quite bad.

> these things were all perceived as true by everyone at different
> points in history, but the actual truth still existed despite what
> ppl believed.
>
> Matt

I take the Terry Pratchet view on reality.

We are here and it is now. Everything else is just guesswork.
-- Small Gods

=====
staredown@... http://staredown.8m.net

"We don't expect kittens to fight wildcats and win
--we merely expect them to try."
-- Robert Heinlein

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more
http://games.yahoo.com/

--- necro6hit <ringthief@...> wrote:

> --- In streetfighter@y..., Chris Hoffmann <staredown@r...> wrote:
> > Don't worry. It doesn't matter what your are or what group you're
> a part of,
> > someone out there will hate you for it. Most likely several
> someones.
>
> my, aren't we the optimist!
> :)

There is another side to that, naturally. There are people who will always
love you, no matter what.

=====
staredown@... http://staredown.8m.net

"We don't expect kittens to fight wildcats and win
--we merely expect them to try."
-- Robert Heinlein

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more
http://games.yahoo.com/

--- necro6hit <ringthief@...> wrote:

> --- In streetfighter@y..., Jason Obeston
> <callanme@y...> wrote:
> > You're speaking of absolute truths. Okay we know
> > there is color in the world. Most of us can
> > distinguish many shades and all. But for those
> that
> > can't distinguish between certain colors one of
> them
> > (colors) might as well not exist. Effectively it
> > doesn't for them.
>
>
> but ppl who can see the color know it DOES exist and
> the blind man is
> just ignorant.
> the color exists whether it is percieved to or not.

but if we all were colorblind you would still say
color exists right? In fact it would not.

>
>
> > Ditto with world being flat and all
> > that. Was it ever really that way? According to
> > scientific fact no.
>
> true
>
> > Did that stop it from being true
> > to millions? Likewise no.
>
> I disagree, it SEEMED true to millions, but it was
> ACTUALLY false to
> millions.

no the fact was false to them it was true. semantics
I know

>
> The beauty of hindsight is that we can now look back
> and see that
> they were all wrong.
> no matter what they THOUGHT was the truth, they were
> wrong.
>
> Your theory doesnt take into account anyone is ever
> wrong.
> What if I walk up to the blackboard to do an
> equation?
> then the teacher tells me I am wrong.
>
> Despite the fact that it SEEMED to be the right
> answer when I
> scribbled it, it is still actually wrong.
>
> My perception did not change what the actual truth
> still was.
>
> That example for 1 person is true, but an example
> for an equation
> that is accepted by MILLIONS in the scientific
> community would be
> equally true.

And who do we say is correct? The millions till
proven otherwise.

>
> no matter how many ppl believe something that is
> wrong, it is still
> wrong.
>
>
> > Until someone ventures
> > enough to prove otherwise reality is in fact
> shaped by
> > popular perception.
>
>
> no, our CONCEPT of reality is shaped by popular
> perception.
> the ACTUAL reality can be totally different than
> popular perception.

Very true but people tend to conform to the current
concept or reality so it might as well be reality.

>
> to say that REALITY changes because of popular
> perception is like
> saying that until a certain time the world was
> actually flat and then
> when popular perception changed it suddenly
> inflated.
>
> and assuming we had the means to watch this event,
> we could have seen
> the entire world physically change from flat to
> round..
>
> its absurd!
>
> now we cant actually see into the past for this
> example to prove that
> your theory of the earths physical inflation didnt
> happen. (well,
> until we break the light barrier and outrun the
> sight of it, then
> turn around and look with a REAALY powerfull
> telescope)
>
> but there are plenty of examples where, thanks to
> modern means of
> recording things, we CAN effectively "see into the
> past" and prove
> the change in reality did not occur and it was only
> perception that
> changed.
>
> stick a card to your forehead facing out.
> have your friend take a picture of you.
> now flip through the deck REALLY fast and try to
> guess which card is
> on your head based on whats left in the deck.
>
> Look at the card,
> when your PERCEPTION of the reality of the card
> turns out to be
> WRONG. you can look at the picture and see that at
> the time you
> believed it, it was actually still wrong despite
> your perception.
>
> also you can go through the remaining deck much
> slower taking notes.
> you will see that the answer was right there the
> whole time, you were
> just wrong because you looked through the deck so
> quickly..
>
> this analogy with the card can go for nearly
> anything.
> often when we find the real truth, we also find how
> those who came
> before us missed it. we see there mistakes and it
> tells us that
> reality was the same then, they just "went through
> the deck to
> quickly".
>
> > Because if someone knows the
> > world to be flat they won't bother sailing towards
> the
> > edge. What would be the point.
> >
>
>
> it doesnt matter if some hick, who is dead wrong
> about the truth,
> sees a point in doing something. that only defines
> some dumb hicks
> perception, not the reality.

I'm not saying there isn't a quote true reality. I'm
just saying that it doesn't really seem to matter as
long as the masses know the "rules" of their reality
whether its the real one or not. We spent a week this
semester in both psych and soc debating the same type
of thing. Does percpetion define reality? Another
good example of when perception really doesn't mesh
with reality is amputee patients that still feel
phantom pain in their severed arm (where nothing is).
Alone someone can always be wrong. But the masses
tend to be right if only because no one will tell them
2+2 isn't 3.

>
> Matt
>
> > --- necro6hit <ringthief@c...> wrote:
> > > Im done talking about whats good or honorable
> here,
> > > but i will
> > > comment on the relationship of perception and
> truth
> > > which was brought
> > > up in that other debate.
> > >
> > > was the world ever flat?
> > > could you ever sail off the side?
> > > did the sun ever revolve around the stationary
> > > earth?
> > > is bathing bad for you?
> > >
> > > these things were all perceived as true by
> everyone
> > > at different
> > > points in history, but the actual truth still
> > > existed despite what
> > > ppl believed.
> > >
> > > Matt
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and
> more
> > http://games.yahoo.com/
>
>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more
http://games.yahoo.com/

Lol sorry about where it seems I'm saying the world
really was flat. Gotta get more sleep before posting
philosophical stuff. No I'm saying it was effectively
flat to those that believed it. And thus the belief
controlled the society till the brave explorers got
good ideas and ventured out. So to clarify no I don't
believe the world was flat 700 years ago just that it
might as well have been because the belief stopped
people from going far enough to find out otherwise.


--- "J. Scott Pittman" <joespitt@...> wrote:

> >>Ditto with world being flat and all
> that. Was it ever really that way? According to
> scientific fact no. Did that stop it from being
> true
> to millions? Likewise no.
>
> You mean that they thought it was true. They were
> wrong but did not know it. Thier perception of what
> was true made them no less right. Thier belief that
> the world was flat made it no more flat than it
> was...
>
> >>Until someone ventures
> enough to prove otherwise reality is in fact shaped
> by
> popular perception.
>
> If that were so, then the world would have never
> been proven to be round, because the majority of the
> population thought it to be flat. Sorry, but life is
> not the Mage game from White Wolf....
>
> J. Scott Pittman
> www.dragonslayergames.com
> Look to Dragonslayer Games for character sketches,
> the EPICS rpg, and more!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jason Obeston
> To: streetfighter@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 9:46 PM
> Subject: Re: [streetfighter] Perception+awareness
>
>
> You're speaking of absolute truths. Okay we know
> there is color in the world. Most of us can
> distinguish many shades and all. But for those
> that
> can't distinguish between certain colors one of
> them
> (colors) might as well not exist. Effectively it
> doesn't for them. Ditto with world being flat and
> all
> that. Was it ever really that way? According to
> scientific fact no. Did that stop it from being
> true
> to millions? Likewise no. Until someone ventures
> enough to prove otherwise reality is in fact
> shaped by
> popular perception. Because if someone knows the
> world to be flat they won't bother sailing towards
> the
> edge. What would be the point.
>
> Oh yeah and for my final words on the evil debate,
> again it depends on the ultimate truth or power
> believed in and unfortunately very much
> circumstances.
> Often evil is only recgonized in hindsight. It
> may
> be lauded as a great action at the time but later
> people discover how wrong it was. Sometimes not
> even
> the information about the action has changed.
> Just
> the perception of it.
>
>
> Um hope some of that made sense kinda out of from
> lack
> of sleep and the holiday sat.
>
>
> --- necro6hit <ringthief@...> wrote:
> > Im done talking about whats good or honorable
> here,
> > but i will
> > comment on the relationship of perception and
> truth
> > which was brought
> > up in that other debate.
> >
> > was the world ever flat?
> > could you ever sail off the side?
> > did the sun ever revolve around the stationary
> > earth?
> > is bathing bad for you?
> >
> > these things were all perceived as true by
> everyone
> > at different
> > points in history, but the actual truth still
> > existed despite what
> > ppl believed.
> >
> > Matt
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and
> more
> http://games.yahoo.com/
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> Terms of Service.
>
>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more
http://games.yahoo.com/

---

Join the world�s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. Click Here

Lol sorry too much of a cynic to think dreams can
change the world. The 60's are long gone.


--- necro6hit <ringthief@...> wrote:

> lol,
> methinks he practices the Mystic style:
> http://www.tlcnet.com/~slappy/sf/mystic.html
>
> --- In streetfighter@y..., "J. Scott Pittman"
> <joespitt@t...> wrote:
> >Sorry, but life is not the Mage game from White
> Wolf....
> >
> > J. Scott Pittman
>
>
>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more
http://games.yahoo.com/

Well... According to Tolkien, the world was once flat and The sun and
moon was entities. When the sun went down, it walked through the doors
of night and slept ^_^

After time the world became round, and the sun and moon became as we
see them now..

I like that view of it O_o

-----Ronin-----

--- In streetfighter@y..., Chris Hoffmann <staredown@r...> wrote:
> --- necro6hit <ringthief@c...> wrote:
> > Im done talking about whats good or honorable here, but i will
> > comment on the relationship of perception and truth which was brought
> > up in that other debate.
> >
> > was the world ever flat?
> > could you ever sail off the side?
> > did the sun ever revolve around the stationary earth?
>
> Maybe. When I get my time machine perfected I'll go back and check
for you.
>
> > is bathing bad for you?
>
> Sometimes. Dead of winter, without heat, it can be quite bad.
>
> > these things were all perceived as true by everyone at different
> > points in history, but the actual truth still existed despite what
> > ppl believed.
> >
> > Matt
>
> I take the Terry Pratchet view on reality.
>
> We are here and it is now. Everything else is just guesswork.
> -- Small Gods
>
> =====
> staredown@r... http://staredown.8m.net
>
> "We don't expect kittens to fight wildcats and win
> --we merely expect them to try."
> -- Robert Heinlein
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more
> http://games.yahoo.com/

--- In streetfighter@y..., Jason Obeston <callanme@y...> wrote:

> but if we all were colorblind you would still say
> color exists right? In fact it would not.
> >
> >

just because NO ONE can percieve it doesnt mean it isnt there.
germs for example. before microscopes we were "germ-blind".
before we had a means to see in the ultraviolent (spelling?)spectrum
we were blind to it. NO ONE COULD SEE THESE THINGS AT ALL.

through science, we find out later they were there all along.
we were just incorrect before.

> > > Ditto with world being flat and all
> > > that. Was it ever really that way? According to
> > > scientific fact no.
> >
> > true
> >
> > > Did that stop it from being true
> > > to millions? Likewise no.
> >
> > I disagree, it SEEMED true to millions, but it was
> > ACTUALLY false to
> > millions.
>
> no the fact was false to them it was true. semantics
> I know

false "to them", you say it (the earths roundness) was only false "to
them".
now your arguing my side.
if it was only false "to them" that means it was actually true.

> And who do we say is correct? The millions till
> proven otherwise.
>
>

yes, we SAY they are correct "till proven otherwise".
thats when we find out we were all wrong despite what we percieved.
theyre perceptions of reality were WRONG and by admitting it can
be "proved otherwise" you are accepting this..

> Very true but people tend to conform to the current
> concept or reality so it might as well be reality.
>

very true indeed,
but i was never arguing about what "might as well be reality".

> I'm not saying there isn't a quote true reality. I'm
> just saying that it doesn't really seem to matter

good, then we actually agree.
we only percieved each other to disagree.

> We spent a week this
> semester in both psych and soc debating the same type
> of thing. Does percpetion define reality?

It's a shame your done now, our debate here (everyones, not just us 2)
would have probably gave you some real zingers to use in class.

> Another
> good example of when perception really doesn't mesh
> with reality is amputee patients that still feel
> phantom pain in their severed arm (where nothing is).

that depends on how much you over-analyze the situation.
technically his brain is perceiving signals from the severed nerves
that used to run to his limb. these perceptions of his DO mesh with
reality (because the severed nerves are still sending signals).

to say he is feeling his lost limb does not mesh with reality because
it is an over-simplification of a very complicated phenomena.

the same could be done with hallucinations.
if i say i see a three eyed flaming billy-goat in my room at night
then that doesnt mesh with reality.

but it is over-simplified.

what should have been said was i saw a "hallucination".
by the definition of the word hallucination, my perception meshes
perfectly with reality.

> Alone someone can always be wrong. But the masses
> tend to be right if only because no one will tell them
> 2+2 isn't 3.
>
>

no, the masses pat themselves on the back and falsely proclaim they
are right. the masses can believe they are right. but if the masses
say 2+2 is 3 the masses are wrong.

also btw, can you please tell me what an optical illusion is i seemed
to have misplaced my dictionary..

Matt

p.s. :) ive been told i could argue with a brick wall.
I believe this perception meshes with the actual reality of it.

lol, i know what you mean i was up till 4am....

seems we dont disagree at all when you start phrasing it "might as
well have been"

M

--- In streetfighter@y..., Jason Obeston <callanme@y...> wrote:
> Lol sorry about where it seems I'm saying the world
> really was flat. Gotta get more sleep before posting
> philosophical stuff. No I'm saying it was effectively
> flat to those that believed it. And thus the belief
> controlled the society till the brave explorers got
> good ideas and ventured out. So to clarify no I don't
> believe the world was flat 700 years ago just that it
> might as well have been because the belief stopped
> people from going far enough to find out otherwise.
>

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Looks good, I will add you to my links page next time I update it.

Your page has good personality with the chicken-speak and the funny
way to get beat up in the links section.
I cant wait 4 your next update.

Also I have some web-design tips for your site but they are minor,
and im at work, and they are merely IMO, so I'll send them later.

Matt

--- In streetfighter@y..., "The King of Chickens 2001"
<chickenno1@h...> wrote:

> Yeehaa!

I am pleased to report that the Fighter's League -- Home to the KOF
conversion for SF:STG is now up!

This is only the preliminary version of the page, and I will be
updating it frequently.

I was intending to include more stuff....but I'm already a day late
with uploading it.

Here's the link:

http://homex.coolconnect.com/member4/chickenno1/member4/chickenno1/ind
ex.html


Happy browsing!

--- In streetfighter@y..., "J. Scott Pittman" <joespitt@t...> wrote:

> >>Matt
>
> p.s. :) ive been told i could argue with a brick wall.
> I believe this perception meshes with the actual reality of it.
> >

>(snipped)

LOL,
God i dont sound like that bad do I?

> Would it not be more accurate to say, if you wanted to be known
>for being able to put up a good argument, that you could "argue with
>a college professor", or even that you could "argue with a college
>professor and a brick wall"? In the later phrase, we keep the same
>comical direction, but give the wall a little leverage.
>

but that was not to imply I put up a good argument.

just an extremely relentless and unflinching one (even when Im
wrong).
more of an onslaught really than a normal debate where you might take
the other persons view into account.
im kind of an asshole...

Matt

First off welcome to Florida! As far as your questions go first let me
explain what the Lakeland Role Playing Guild is exactly. The L.R.P.G. is
Lakeland, Florida's official role playing organization. We have been
established since September of 2000 and have since grown to well over 50
members. The ages in the Lakeland Role Playing Guild range from 15 - 45, but
the vast majority of members are in their mid to late 20's. Variety of
gamers and gaming interests are synonymous with the Guild. And most
importantly we always have room for more members.


The big job of the Lakeland Role Playing Guild is to help our members find
other local gamers of similar gaming interest. Like you mentioned earlier
the RPGs you're really interested in playing. Ideally, once you became a
member, we would have you fill out a questionnaire that deals with your
gaming habits and help find you a compatible group to start role playing
with on a schedule and at a location that is good for you.

We also have monthly meetings on the second Monday of each month. Meetings
start at 7pm and last till around 9:30, sometimes later. Our monthly
meetings are held at Lemans Apartments social room on Shepherd Rd on the
south side of Lakeland only a stones throw from Mulberry. If you need
directions please let me know and I'll email them to you. Our meetings are
going to be your best chance of networking and getting to know other members
to start role playing.

However the Guild does a lot more then just getting together to role play.
Our primary mission is to expand the enjoyment of our members gaming
experience......



We have WORKSHOPS on game mastering, painting miniatures, playing, or any
role playing topic.



We have DEMOS on new games to broaden our gaming interests.



We go on TRIPS to conventions, movies, and any activities that maybe
considered inspirational for gamers.



We have a role-playing game LIBRARY where members can check out role playing
games for free for 4 weeks at a time.



We have a NEWSLETTER, The Sword & the Quill, where our members get a chance
to get reviews of games and movies, hear about the new games that are coming
out on the market, get hints & tips for their games from other members. If
you like to write articles we encourage all our members to submit stuff to
the newsletter.



We currently have a yahoo group site,
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LRPGMail/ , which has helped with our internet
presence until our real site, www.LRPG.org is fully operational.

Well that is the Lakeland Role Playing Guild in a nutshell. If you have any
other questions feel free to email me. And I hope to see you at one of our
meetings soon!


The Guild Master

--- necro6hit <ringthief@...> wrote:

> lol, i know what you mean i was up till 4am....
>
> seems we dont disagree at all when you start
> phrasing it "might as
> well have been"
>

Actually we probally still do but only cause I tend to
accept any truth that is held by the dominant group of
people with majority rule at any time to be
functionaly true even if not absolutely true.

> M
>
> --- In streetfighter@y..., Jason Obeston
> <callanme@y...> wrote:
> > Lol sorry about where it seems I'm saying the
> world
> > really was flat. Gotta get more sleep before
> posting
> > philosophical stuff. No I'm saying it was
> effectively
> > flat to those that believed it. And thus the
> belief
> > controlled the society till the brave explorers
> got
> > good ideas and ventured out. So to clarify no I
> don't
> > believe the world was flat 700 years ago just that
> it
> > might as well have been because the belief stopped
> > people from going far enough to find out
> otherwise.
> >
>
>
>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more
http://games.yahoo.com/

> It's a shame your done now, our debate here
> (everyones, not just us 2)
> would have probably gave you some real zingers to
> use in class.

Lol course its a lot easier to come up with arguments
when its not on the fly (especially when the damn
profs have had years to prepare their arguments)


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more
http://games.yahoo.com/

Hi, your site says you need to click on the banner menu to access the rest of the site, I can't find it, does that mean it's not up yet or I'm misconfigured?

--- In streetfighter@y..., "The King of Chickens 2001" <chickenno1@h...> wrote:
>

--- In streetfighter@y..., "J. Scott Pittman" <joespitt@t...> wrote:

> >>Ditto with world being flat and all
> that. Was it ever really that way? According to
> scientific fact no. Did that stop it from being true
> to millions? Likewise no.
>
> You mean that they thought it was true. They were wrong but did

not know it. Thier perception of what was true made them no less
right. Thier belief that the world was flat made it no more flat
than it was...


Just to clarify Arkon's point, the world was known to be round for
millenia before Columbus.

KNOWN to be round.


The whole flat vs. round/stupid peasants thing is a pet peeve of
mine.

As above.

warlockfm

---

Join the world�s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. Click Here

I am running in 1280x1024 res, IE5.5, java should be on, the banner loads, but I only see the "the fighters lounge" picture which doesn't always finish loading.